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So let me get this straight. PacifiCorp kills over 200 eagles in one year from power lines and you don't complain about that - but if their wind farms kill 20 over several years it's a mortal sin? 3/3 ...The BP oil company was fined $100 million for killing and harming migratory birds during the 2010 Gulf oil spill. And PacifiCorp, which operates coal plants in Wyoming, paid more than $10.5 million in 2009 for electrocuting 232 eagles along power lines and at its substations.
But PacifiCorp also operates wind farms in the state, where at least 20 eagles have been found dead in recent years, according to corporate surveys submitted to the federal government and obtained by The Associated Press.
OK, what am I missing?So let me get this straight. PacifiCorp kills over 200 eagles in one year from power lines and you don't complain about that - but if their wind farms kill 20 over several years it's a mortal sin? 3/3 ...
:lamo :lamo :lamo
If the power lines are built side-by-side instead of vertical then eagles and other large-wing-span birds can span the gap and kill themselves. Power line standards for many years use the vertical arrangement. The older, parallel lines were supposed to be changed to the vertical configuration but some companies would rather pay the fines than fix the problem.OK, what am I missing?
How do power lines kill eagles? Birds perch on power lines all the time. Without being grounded or across two phases, there is no potential across their bodies to shock them, so how...
OK.If the power lines are built side-by-side instead of vertical then eagles and other large-wing-span birds can span the gap and kill themselves. Power line standards for many years use the vertical arrangement. The older, parallel lines were supposed to be changed to the vertical configuration but some companies would rather pay the fines than fix the problem.
PS
Some standards have parallel lines but at a much wider distance than the old standards making the newer parallel lines safe for large birds.
I went looking for the standards but the ones I found are behind a pay wall at ASTM. I did find an article talking about pylon designs. Apparently, larger birds can short from a power line to a metal pylon, which makes sense. There are experiments being done to determine guidelines for pylon design. The pylon issue isn't what the EPA is looking at, though that could change if good pylon design standards can be developed.OK, what am I missing?
How do power lines kill eagles? Birds perch on power lines all the time. Without being grounded or across two phases, there is no potential across their bodies to shock them, so how...
Newer ones aren't a problem, just the really old ones. I guess in the areas talked about in the article there must be some issues with access that make it expensive to rebuild or modify.I've never seen long haul lines that close, even for such majestic birds. City lines, yes.
Here is what I'm used to seeing, but then I live in Eagle and Spotted owl territory...I went looking for the standards but the ones I found are behind a pay wall at ASTM. I did find an article talking about pylon designs. Apparently, larger birds can short from a power line to a metal pylon, which makes sense. There are experiments being done to determine guidelines for pylon design. The pylon issue isn't what the EPA is looking at, though that could change if good pylon design standards can be developed.
Uhhh, except that environmentalists HAVE been protesting the locations of these wind farms for that very reason.
Proposed Wyoming Wind Farm Draws Environmentalist Opposition | Heartlander Magazine
They're religious zealots. That, and they watched too much Captain Planet when they were little.Right, real environmentalist that actually care about the environment are against industrial level wind and solar, only the warmer freaks say f*** the environment we have to save the planet. Make sense of that one.:lol:
Plate glass windows kill a billion birds a year, some of them endangered.
Glass blamed for billion bird deaths a year - US news - Environment | NBC News
Do we ban plate glass and take down skyscrapers?
All technology comes with negative environmental effects, good placement of windfarms goes a long way to alleviate bird deaths, and the overall goal of the farms is to help mitigate CO2 emissions, which has the potential to kill billions of birds and is currently contributing to bird extinction worldwide.
WWF - Climate change impacts on bird species
The original post in this thread is disingenuous, at best.
Right. Wind farms have an exemption.
Wind power takes precedence over protecting endangered cranes - Houston Chronicle
Because overall, wind energy will save more birds than they harm.
It's not rocket science.
A self-professed NIMBY can say this? :lamo :lamo :lamoRight, real environmentalist that actually care about the environment are against industrial level wind and solar, only the warmer freaks say f*** the environment we have to save the planet. Make sense of that one.:lol:
It's not just CO2 emissions, it's all the other crap that goes with it!Plate glass windows kill a billion birds a year, some of them endangered.
Glass blamed for billion bird deaths a year - US news - Environment | NBC News
Do we ban plate glass and take down skyscrapers?
All technology comes with negative environmental effects, good placement of windfarms goes a long way to alleviate bird deaths, and the overall goal of the farms is to help mitigate CO2 emissions, which has the potential to kill billions of birds and is currently contributing to bird extinction worldwide.
WWF - Climate change impacts on bird species
The original post in this thread is disingenuous, at best.
Yeah - it's OK that 200+/year are killed but not OK for 20 over several years! :lamoThe OP is making a point you are trying desperately to ignore. Obviously you did not read or did not comprehend it so I will high lite the basic premise for you. see if you can find the double standard here. :lol:
Killing these iconic birds is not just an irreplaceable loss for a vulnerable species. It's also a federal crime, a charge that the Obama administration has used to prosecute oil companies when birds drown in their waste pits, and power companies when birds are electrocuted by their power lines.
But the administration has never fined or prosecuted a wind-energy company, even those that flout the law repeatedly. Instead, the government is shielding the industry from liability and helping keep the scope of the deaths secret.
The article might. But I was using it as a reference source that there is an exemption for wind power specifically.
It's not like the government is looking tge other way, as its been sort of implied.
It's a cost-benefit decision to exempt windmills.
The cost benefit is based on the AGW theory not on any fact and I have not seen any stats on how many Golden eagles will die due to AGW if it actually existed. What is going on here is industry obama favors gets a pass on killing endangered species while industry he doesn't like gets hammered. It is all politics.
You haven't seen any stats on Gloden Eagles and AGW. Well, the EPA is probably not as lazy as you and has seen the studies. And they don't pretend that science can be ignored because its convenient, like some.
The concept of AGW is not the only reason to encourage alternative energy. Renewability, less emissions of other types vs fossil fuels, and diversification are three additional excellent reasons to encourage the development.
I can do your homework.
http://web4.audubon.org/globalwarming/files/GW and birds 041707.pdf
Again, its not about some Golden Eagles. It's about endangered wildlife as a whole. And wind is better than fossil.
Golden Eagles, as far as I know, are not Endangered Species anyway...and are pretty common in the western US. I've seen tons of them myself.
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