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Greek suicide starts riots!

Higgins86

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BBC News - Greek unrest after pensioner suicide beside parliament



Pretty horrible story overall but it seems to have sparked something within the greek people and I dont think they are going to take these austerity measures lying down! Horrible way for that old man to go but at least he made his point and I thought the note he left was very poignant reminder of the burden left on the greek people, sad stuff.
 

It would be interesting to know what his pension was cut from / to. This is a tragedy; suicides always are. If he paid for his entire pension, I think it's a crime it was cut. Politicians. Evil dudes. Just. Evil.
 
To be fair... anything can start a riot in Greece.. It has been so for many decades. There was a yearly agreed upon student riot for example... it is actually soon if I remember right.
 
Sure, let's be fair and rationalize 77 year olds suicide beside parliament...
 
It would be interesting to know what his pension was cut from / to. This is a tragedy; suicides always are. If he paid for his entire pension, I think it's a crime it was cut. Politicians. Evil dudes. Just. Evil.

he must have paid it into a govt fund, else how can they cut it?
 
Tragic, I heard this yesterday.

Unfortunately when I heard the circumstances all I could think was "see what happens when government tries to plan and control economics?". Sad stuff. I'd almost think many liberals would be concerned about such a constant stream of evidence of government planning failures undermining their position. But then, they will no doubt somehow twist this into the fault of those who earn more and don't rely on government. It's maddening.
 
Horrible, for sure. Here in Switzerland we watch all of this unfold with total amazement and a certain feeling that we are the lucky ones on this old continent. Sure we have some problems, rising unemployment and poverty like everywhere else, but all in all, our rates are laughable compared to those of other European countries. Also, we've long given up on the idea of being able to live decently on the basic pension program. Everyone has a second pension plan that both the employer and employee pay into, which can also be used in full or in part to purchase a home, and a rising number of us have an additional private plan we pay into every year. We call them the 3 Pillars for retirement.
 

Oh brother.

See I knew at some point in this thread this would come up.

And alas I was right.

What people like Mach fail to understand is that the problems with pensions aren't just a government issue, they're a government and a private issue, and not because of bad planning, but because when these programs were put into place, the idea that the population would be the way it is today, was simply impossible to fathom.

When things like Social Security, or even company pension plans were put into place, there were more people working to support those benefits and so it all made sense.

This was the population by age group in the US in 1950.



This is what it is today:



This is what it's projected to be in 2020



The idea that this could happen, was unfathomable at the time for companies and governments.

When times were good, and companies wanted the best and brightest, they often offered such benefits not at the behest of Unions alone, but to hold on to employees because there was so much choice.

Many Californian cities are paying for that big time at the moment because when municipalities were competing for public employees such as Policemen and Firefighters they offered outrageous benefits based on the good times never ending, which were deals all made in good faith and fairly.

Both Governments and Private Companies made these miscalculations, and to go the whole "It's the liberals fault" route is absolutely untrue.
 

rampant tax evasion by the wealthy is part of the problem, that was in the news some time back....
So people who fail to support the financial well being of the govt that helps them attain wealth are partly to blame...
 
rampant tax evasion by the wealthy is part of the problem, that was in the news some time back....
So people who fail to support the financial well being of the govt that helps them attain wealth are partly to blame...
First off, tax evasion is common among all income levels. Secondly, tax evasion is something the government has the responsibility fixing. Blaming individual groups don't work.

Greece has been very irresponsible for decades, and Greeks didn't care. Then the EU seized the power, and tried to regulate away the crisis, which obviously failed. People are going to resist when they feel they have no power.
 
When you look at spending as a percentage of GDP, it doesn't adjust for the massive rise in living standards. Much of it, that was based on a bubble.

There is still an indicator who shows what went wrong in Greece. Social benefits other than social transfers as a percentage of GDP. That is benefits that does not go to the poor.
1996: 13.86
1997: 14.03
1998: 14.20
1999: 14.27
2000: 14.92
2001: 15.51
2002: 15.58
2003: 16.00
2004: 15.73
2005: 16.48
2006: 17.05
2007: 17.93
2008: 19.64
2009: 21.14
2010: 20.77
OECD Statistics (GDP, unemployment, income, population, labour, education, trade, finance, prices,health,debt...)

Greece went from number 17 to the highest number in the world, and in the same period most countries (apart from the US, Italy, Portugal and Japan) remained flat or declined. What happened in Greece was that the government was used to improve the living standard for the middle class by ever rising benefits. Problem is, it doesn't work. The only way to increase living standards are to increase productivity or share the wealth better.
 
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