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The South was fighting to destroy our country. .
Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
This is a cute meme that is ignoring the fact that I am directly dealing with what the Confederate govt was defending...and it is directly countering your claims....which you have apparently decided to drop.
If you're interested in history, trace the recent history of the Confederate flag, when it saw a huge resurgence in popularity across the former Confederacy. Find out what year it was first raised on the State Capitol in SC. For some strange reason, it coincided with Southern opposition to integration and civil rights for blacks.
Were it not for that history, MAYBE the case could be made that it's all about history and southern pride and all that , but the fact is that flag became popular when states were defending Jim Crow and Federal attempts to roll back institutionalized, state sanctioned white supremacy.
The Union devastated the South. Now, liberals are waging a war of annihilation on the character of the South. It's truly sad and those who take part know nothing about the people of the South.
For shame.
I'm not going to deny that some supremacist groups have adopted the rebel flag. I know you are correct about that. But, by banning the flag now, you're just going to push it further toward the extremists. You will guarantee that every white supremacist in this nation starts flying that flag.
And that is the true tragedy - that a symbol that was never intended to mean something so vile - will now mean something vile. It's a raping of history.
So it's all the fault of those who object for not asking nicely enough?
I can't point to evidence either way on how whites in NYC regarded blacks as people, but the "not slavery" exception is a sort of gigantic one. I think in 1863, if I'm black I'm Ok with whites thinking I'm inferior so long as I'm free and treated somewhat at least equally under the law, and not raped, beaten, killed, my kids sold out from under me, whatever, at my owner's discretion.
Sheesh, is there anything a racist, white supremacist can do that you're not going to excuse? First of all I imagine the Jim Crow laws were primarily response to a deeply held belief in white supremacy and racists' attempt to keep blacks subjugated despite their "freedom." But if that wasn't the primary motivation, and if they were in response to reconstruction in 1900, what the hell is your excuse for them being in place and vehemently defended by the southern states in 1960? Still holding a grudge and taking it out on blacks a century later?
I don't even know how to respond to that. Yes, it would stick in the craw of white men who were up to that point quite able to beat, rape, buy, sell, etc. human beings at their whim. And I imagine that being owned by a white master stuck in the craw of black slaves.
But, yes, I get we can't use the lens of 2015 to judge those in 1865. But what most of us are focusing on is more recent history in my lifetime when, for example, S.C. decided to fly the Confederate flag as a protest for the Feds forcing civil rights on reluctant white racists throughout the South. Did it stick in the craw of whites (poor things) that whites in S.C. had to share restaurants with blacks? And blacks got to go to decent schools? Attend state colleges? Play sports with fellow whites?
I can't believe you're quoting history in one comment, then ignoring when THAT flag regained prominence. I didn't ask when the KKK adopted the flag but when the STATE OF S.C. did, along with Georgia and others. So it was absolutely intended to mean something so vile, as it was first flown over the State Capitol put there by the elected leaders of S.C. as a FU to those pushing for civil rights, basic human rights, for 1/3 or more of their citizens.
So it's not an unfortunate coincidence that racist organizations and the State of SC adopted the flag at the same time. They both adopted it at the same time because that flag had the same meaning to them both, a symbol of white supremacy and the continued subjugation of blacks.
Goodness, this isn't speculation - it's history. And you're whining that some people on the receiving end of that sordid history and their supporters want that symbol with a clearly racist past brought down.
Why doesn't she remove the flag and then they can debate/vote to put it back up?
Just take it down and be done with it.
We continue to see leading GOP contenders for POTUS hide behind state's rights on the Confederate flag.
What is not being addressed by everyone is the battle between state's rights and a strong central government.
The overriding issue of our Nation since it was first formed--the tenth/civil war amendment.
What I do see is Roof succeeding in his attempt to divide America--as evidenced on this board with the nonsensical back-and-forth posting .
No the issue is a bigger then that. You have 9 states that issues Sons of the Confederacy Vehicle plates which has Sons of Confederate Veterans logo. You also have Mississippi and Georgia which have "star and bars" features. Then you Six flags over Texas.
Why is there a necessity to assign blame? When did someone taking offense to something automatically demand that their offense be appeased?
I can't point out to "whites in NYC" but I can point out to our 16th President.
When did explaining the situation in context become excuse making?
I imagine it would. Are you familiar with a gentleman named Anthony Johnson?
Right, you're relativizing it. I'm trying to paint a picture for you to understand where these people are coming from in its broader sense, you're making the mistake of taking one snapshot in time and basing an entire opinion on that when there is so much more to it.
Might have to do with legislation enacted by the S Carolina Congress, huh? What is so difficult in grasping the concept that a governor just can't do what they want to.
Of course.....if you had read the thread. Then you might not have had such difficulty in coming up with an answer to your own question, Right? :roll:
Why doesn't she remove the flag and then they can debate/vote to put it back up?
As always, it depends on whether the person complaining and the person flying the flag is left-wing or right-wing. Even in Texas.
For example, a school principal in Texas was ordered to take down a Mexican flag he flew at school...and leftists pitched a fit because of that.
Mexican flag fuels immigration debate - Houston Chronicle
Quick question: If a German decided to fly the Nazi flag under the premise that their ancestors did so, and they want to honor those ancestors and what they fought for, not necessarily the whole burning Jews in gas ovens part, would anybody buy it?
I find it funny that you find it more important to attack me and defend big government bureaucracy. LOL
What will they do to her if she orders it removed?
Wow - the sound of a mind slamming shut.
Like I told another poster - I'm sure you'll win this one.
To claim that SC adopted the flag for racist purposes tells me all I need to know. You're intent on repeating the propaganda, no matter what.
There are actually more than one flag of the Confederacy and none of them symbolize racism to the South in general. Only to small extremist groups.
You will believe what you will believe and no amount of history will change that.
How I am attacking you by pointing out a governor cant just decide to do what they want. :doh
Why is it fall back to playing victim due to you not reading the thread? :lamo
If she orders it to be taken down.....they will just ignore her. Might have to do with some law that came out of legislation, huh?
The Stars and Stripes, the Flag of the North, flew for over 80 years while Slavery was legal.
Allot longer than the Confederate flag flew. Also the Confederate flag was a Battle flag, not a National flag.
The National flag of the South had a different design.
And yes, the North used slaves. Really, the North never had a problem with slavery until the South wanted to secede.
Come to think of it, Dutch, English and Porteguese Ships brought slaves over to the US.
Should those flags be taken down ?
Maybe if people were more educated they wouldn't be so insulted over a flag.
They definitely wouldn't compare it to the Nazi flag, thats for sure.
the flag of Hawaii has the union jack in it... is that OK to fly?.. or is that somehow different?
The Stars and Stripes, the Flag of the North, flew for over 80 years while Slavery was legal.
Allot longer than the Confederate flag flew. Also the Confederate flag was a Battle flag, not a National flag.
The National flag of the South had a different design.
And yes, the North used slaves. Really, the North never had a problem with slavery until the South wanted to secede.
Come to think of it, Dutch, English and Porteguese Ships brought slaves over to the US.
Should those flags be taken down ?
Maybe if people were more educated they wouldn't be so insulted over a flag.
They definitely wouldn't compare it to the Nazi flag, thats for sure.
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