What is being ingored in the discussion but is also manifestly being demonstrated by this discussion is that there exists in American politics a very intentional and deliberate strategy on the part of the right wing to remove the topic of RACISM and any subsequent discussion of RACISM from the table. This is being done as a tactic of self preservation for the right wing itself. The word has gone out for some time now to right wingers all across the land spread by conservative and libertarian think tanks, spokespersons and office holders. Here is but one example but a prominent one
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The idea on its face is that 'conservatism is not the same as racism". And indeed, that can be true in some instances. But what is also true is that American conservatives have historically lined up on the opposite side of the Civil Rights community - African Americans and other minorities - in opposition to policies that they advocate.
The word has gone out to conservatives, libertarians and others on the right side of these issues that you need to effectively neutralize the strong stigma of the charge of racism because it prevents those on the right from saying what they want to really say about many issues near and dear to them.
We see that right here where the usual suspects feel it necessary to attack Democrats from past history (FDR in the Thirties) when current Republican transgressions (the Obama chimp parent picture) are being discussed.
We see it when some here attempt to get off the defensive and go on the offensive changing the subject from the sins of the right (racism and discrimination) to the policies favored by the left (affirmative action).
It is important to see this for what it really is. This is merely a tactic in a war of ideology. Its goal is to remove the charge of racism from our society in order to provide a clear and unobstructed path for the right to pursue their more nefarious goals of repealing much of the progressive reform of the 20th century.
There is power in the accusation of racism against conservatives, one that liberals understand well. In an April 2008 post on Journolist, a private online community for liberal journalists, academics and activists, one writer proposed a way to distract conservatives from the campaign controversy surrounding the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama's pastor. "If the right forces us all to either defend Wright or tear him down, no matter what we choose, we lose the game they've put upon us," Spencer Ackerman wrote. "Instead, take one of them--Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares--and call them racists."
Joe Biden, a Delaware Democrat, after all, who described presidential candidate Obama as "the first mainstream African American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy." If a conservative politician had offered such an opinion, his or her career might have ended; Biden was rewarded with a spot on Obama's ticket
Liberal interpretations that portray modern conservatism as standing athwart the "rights revolution" of the 1960s are hard pressed to explain the growing number of minority and female candidates favored by the conservative rank and file. Marco Rubio, Nikki Haley, Susana Martinez, Brian Sandoval, Tim Scott, Ryan Frazier, Raul Labrador and Jaime Herrera are GOP nominees for the Senate, governorships and the House because Republican voters preferred them over their white opponents. Allen West in Florida and Jon Barela in New Mexico were the consensus GOP choices to run for competitive House seats. Many of these candidates are well-positioned to win their races and help change the public face of modern conservatism.in the 2008 campaign, conservatives were at least as roused by Obama's ties to the white former radical William Ayers as the black Jeremiah Wright, both of whom seemed to make a living out of damning America.
The old conservatism-as-racism story has outlived all usefulness and accuracy. November might be a good time to start a rethink.
… there exists in American politics a very intentional and deliberate strategy on the part of the right wing to remove the topic of RACISM and any subsequent discussion of RACISM from the table. This is being done as a tactic of self preservation for the right wing itself. …
Chris Matthews is an individual. He represents himself. You should meet more liberals.Mathews is obsessed with race, and in my opinion, he is your typical liberal.
Chris Matthews on Obama State of the Union address: 'I forgot he was black' (video)
Question for conservatives. When listening to Obama spew his rhetoric are you thinking about his skin color?
Here's Mathews admitting that is what he thinks about, well, except for that hour where he "forgot":roll:
Not sure I'd go as far as calling that racist, but it sure is an obsession with the color of a persons skin.
Here's why: it's just about unavoidable that racially insensitive or outright racist comments will occur within the Republican party because as it turns out it's membership is just about all white.
“The Republican Party today is first and foremost a political entity dominated by white Americans. Eighty-nine percent of rank-and-file Republicans are non-Hispanic whites, leaving just 5% who are Hispanic (of any race), 2% who are black, and 4% of other races.” — Frank Newport, GALLUP, “Republican Base Heavily White, Conservative, Religious”
The Republican party by beating down on racist charges now is seeking to inoculate itself against the inevitable lapses that will come almost certainly at inopportune moments in the not-too distant future.
I was reading an article (I wish I could remember where) about how the Republican Party might start losing many more elections in coming decades since the minority population is growing and generally Democratic. Oh well.
Here's why: it's just about unavoidable that racially insensitive or outright racist comments will occur within the Republican party because as it turns out it's membership is just about all white.
I dont understand the relevance of your little "reality" shindig. Reality is the facts and the concept of race does not match the facts.The fact that we're talking about it means that it is a reality.
Reality is that which exists. Ideas exist...in our minds. For example, a lie is real, but what the lie says exists, however, is not real. For example again, the idea of a unicorn is real, but unicorns are not. Ideas are real.
1. If race is genetic, how it is not real?
2. I'm not confused. Race describes the divisions of human beings into groups sharing certain somewhat arbitrary physical characteristics. Culture describes the pattern of living within a particular society or population. Both are created by human beings - race is created by attributing meaning to physical features and culture is created by living together. Both influence each other.
3. I think you're confused.
Again, you think you're educating me, but you're not. I also never said anything about "race existing due to cultural identity" so I don't even know what you're talking about.
Pretty much:
Actually the racial divide has gotten better as evidence by...everything.
Umm...yes you can. Let me show you: "there are many different races that human beings recognize and all of them are equal because physical characteristics are insignificant".
Umm...no. But thanks for playing.
So are you saying that minorities don't want to vote for white people? And who is getting called out as racist? :doh
Okay, you do not make sense....The fact that we're talking about it means that it is a reality.
Reality is that which exists. Ideas exist...in our minds. For example, a lie is real, but what the lie says exists, however, is not real. For example again, the idea of a unicorn is real, but unicorns are not. Ideas are real.
Actually I think he's saying the majority of minorities don't want to vote for Republicans, since he clearly is talking about the Republican Party. But nice Sharptoning of his post.
And what he says is true. The majority of minorities aren't likely to vote for Republicans. The fallacy some people make is in thinking that said fact means Republicans don't care about minorities or are racists for not actively courting minorities through race based recruitment.
Yes, I agree with you for the most part. I don't deny there is some component of racial/ethnic tension, but I wouldn't deny that existing for either party. On the other hand, Republicans have at least desired more minority affiliation...but might not get it because policy positions may be significantly different from the community.
So, in general summary, my thoughts....
1) The after affects of the civil rights era
2) The prominence of left leaning black political organizations
3) The higher reliance on services supported by Democrats and opposed by Republicans
4) The perception, right or wrong, that the Democrats are more in touch with issues important to blacks
5) Conservative ideology making identity based recruitment less frequent than on the opposite side
I think all those things largely play into why many of the majority of the African American population tends to vote Democrat.
I dont understand the relevance of your little "reality" shindig. Reality is the facts and the concept of race does not match the facts.
I'm frustrating? You're the one who said:"1. If race is genetic, how it is not real?"
OMG you are so fustrating, the misconception of the thing we call "race" tries to be based on genetics.
Don't say it if you don't meant it.celticwar17 said:Like many, you seem to be confusing between culture and "race"... "race" is genetic, and culture is NOT necessarily so...
Race is real as an idea. It is not real as a human characteristic.Race is NOT real, you can see every color of skin on the melatonin rainbow.
Sure it's stupid. People still do it and ignoring that fact doesn't help anyone.It's stupid to identify yourself on the basis of physical characteristics, these differences are arbitrary and should be recognized as such by the government. If i had your head i would be a white supremacist, but im not i think there is no such thing race just racist people that try to make it a reality.
What issue and what ideology? I don't even know what you're talking about.it was just a general non-serious hypothesis that i had thinking that liberals are racist, but you are definitely making it more and more convincing to me that your ideology toward this issue is based on racism.
Please explain how acknowledging that people have racial identities and that racism exists "divides and slows the progress of humanity"? Would you have me close my ears whenever someone says "black" or "white"?Your way of thinking just divides and slows the progress of humanity.
I mean real as in, it exists in our minds. Ideas exist in our minds, objects and entities exist outside of them.Okay, you do not make sense....
I say racism does not exist.
You say racism is an idea... i agree
You say ideas are real... depends what you mean by "real" real as it is in your head, yes. Real as in it is based on actual scientific evidence, not necessarily.
That example works perfectly actually. The idea of race as a natural division is real, but race as a natural division is not real. The idea of a unicorn in nature is real, but a unicorn in nature is not real...Your example, "the idea of a unicorn is real, but unicorns are not. Ideas are real." fails
we are replacing race with unicorn
Sure, I'd prefer a world where no one thought in terms of race.people definitely have the idea, but it is a misconception, a fallacy when applied to the real world when every human being is born with equal rights.
No, but i would prefer our government to NOT recognize racial divides and later culture will follow afterward.Please explain how acknowledging that people have racial identities and that racism exists "divides and slows the progress of humanity"? Would you have me close my ears whenever someone says "black" or "white"?
I mean real as in, it exists in our minds. Ideas exist in our minds, objects and entities exist outside of them.
That example works perfectly actually. The idea of race as a natural division is real, but race as a natural division is not real. The idea of a unicorn in nature is real, but a unicorn in nature is not real...
Sure, I'd prefer a world where no one thought in terms of race.
i think quotas and affirmative action are just as racist. "oh don't worry black, we dumbed down teh standards for you"... If I was black I'd be highly offended of being viewed that way.
What in the sam hill are you babbling about? :lamo
Yes, I agree with you for the most part. I don't deny there is some component of racial/ethnic tension, but I wouldn't deny that existing for either party. On the other hand, Republicans have at least desired more minority affiliation...but might not get it because policy positions may be significantly different from the community.
So are you saying that minorities don't want to vote for white people? And who is getting called out as racist? :doh
I'm glad we agree that race is real...as an idea. Also, stop telling me what my idea of race is. My idea of race is not culture. My idea of race is that it is a socially constructed division of humanity based on physical characteristics. People who identify as a particularly race have culture, but culture and race are separate ideas.No, but i would prefer our government to NOT recognize racial divides and later culture will follow afterward.
"Race is real as an idea. It is not real as a human characteristic."
EXACTLY, because your idea of race is instead a CULTURE( a culture that labels group differences on the basis of skin instead by the content of their character)... race doesn't exist in the real world, and a neutral institution should not recognize it!
You just did. You said that race wasn't real. Except it is real...as an idea....which we now agree on.Wait wait wait.... who will ever debate whether the idea of race exists or not?! That is absolutely obvious. We are discussing that the laws of our society should not be based on this "idea" of race because it is inherently prejudicial.
Ummm...I thought that was your argument. I argued that racial divide has grown weaker...Whatever.And i don't agree with your opinion on racial divide as grown stronger in the last forty years... that's kind of laughable.
Your strong reaction to the tactics of the extreme right being exposed and called out. But then you knew that all along or otherwise you would not have bothered to post.
I'm glad we agree that race is real...as an idea. Also, stop telling me what my idea of race is. My idea of race is not culture. My idea of race is that it is a socially constructed division of humanity based on physical characteristics. People who identify as a particularly race have culture, but culture and race are separate ideas.
You just did. You said that race wasn't real. Except it is real...as an idea....which we now agree on.
Ummm...I thought that was your argument. I argued that racial divide has grown weaker...Whatever.
saying that race exist as any idea doesnt mean anything applied to any of my claims. I dont know why you would bring up the thought of race exist's... Of Course it does, tis why we are discussing it.
That was you making its reality an issue, not me.What you define as reality, is NOT reality, race is not a reality...
It's not... its not in reality... meaning the physical world, not the mental one.I didn't bring the thought that race exists. You did when you said this:
That was you making its reality an issue, not me.
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