Well you can gamble with foreign countries that control oil all you want, I won't have to in a few years as much as I do now.
Again, you are looking at it per year, I am looking at it that gas is going to skyrocket again and am planning on it accordingly. Also with the volt you are able to get a rebate from the government.
Hey if people want to remain ignorant and reliant on foreign oil as their primary fuel, that's up to them.
Me I will take my chance on Using American Energy as my primary source, not Foreign.
So lets get this straight...you're looking at purchasing the volt to avoid skyrocketing gasoline prices and relying on foreign sources of energy. Reasonable.
But then you cite a rebate check from the government. You really mean that some US taxpayers will be subsidizing your purchase. In other words, you will be subsidizing your purchase.
Coal is the primary energy course in generating electricity. Nuclear is 2nd with Natural Gas third and Hydro fourth. Oil is fifth. There is currently an assault on coal as an energy source. Nuke power ain't coming back soon. And Natural Gas has a highly volatile commodity price. With the current fetish with alternative fuels, how do you know that such alternatives won't be more expensive than oil? How do you know that cheap coal will be available to generate the electricity necessary to charge up your car?
More importantly, how do we know that the current electrcity generating infrastructure can adequately accomodate the increased demand for electricity generated by the introduction of such a vehicle? Hell, several parts of the US are already experiencing rolling blackouts several times a year now because they cannot provide an adequate supply of electricity.
Hence, it's not even remotely clear that the availability of such a vehicle is going to insulate the US from relying on foreign sources of energy or reduce long-term energy costs, particularly when you consider that such a vehicle will necessarily increase demand for energy.
Well then I guess you won't be buying it, that's your choice.
Charge time can be done at night at low levels of public usage. Not everyone is charging their car at noon. The electric companies are already researching this and Nevada Power company (NV Energy) has already said to its customers that it can support it.
As for the rebate, my money is gone out of my paycheck no matter what, this way I get some of it back and put to better use, my use.
So enjoy your support of OPEC and stand proud and salute the flag as you are pumping each and everytime lol. Me, with my driving times and such it will be far and few in between.
Well you can gamble with foreign countries that control oil all you want, I won't have to in a few years as much as I do now.
Again, you are looking at it per year, I am looking at it that gas is going to skyrocket again and am planning on it accordingly. Also with the volt you are able to get a rebate from the government.
Hey if people want to remain ignorant and reliant on foreign oil as their primary fuel, that's up to them.
Me I will take my chance on Using American Energy as my primary source, not Foreign.
Boy, doing research is great. Nevada can support it only by diverting more water from the Colorado, something that cannot grow infinitely.
With the kind of thinking, why don't we just enact all sorts of policies confiscating our income to subsidize the individual consumption choices of everyone else? The money is going to be taken anyway. :roll:
I love how you use gas consumption as some perjorative. Reveals your level of intellectual integrity.
BTW - nice duck.
I'm not criticizing your choice or arguing that there aren't benefits to the hybrid.
Folks were criticizing GM for halting production development. My point is that the market drives demand for such vehicles, and at $2/gal for fuel with a recession, I question whether there is going to be much demand for these vehicles. Apparently GM questions that as well. At $4/gal, a hybrid makes twice as much sense from an economic perspective.
Well that is going to have to be for others to decide. I would gladly choose using American power over foreign oil.
If others don't want to, that's their choice. But the technology is out there and $2 gas will not stay forever. We saw how quickly gas can rise in just a year and then two years.
If people don't want to learn from their mistakes, they deserve what they get.
Well that is going to have to be for others to decide. I would gladly choose using American power over foreign oil.
If others don't want to, that's their choice. But the technology is out there and $2 gas will not stay forever. We saw how quickly gas can rise in just a year and then two years.
If people don't want to learn from their mistakes, they deserve what they get.
Well that is going to have to be for others to decide. I would gladly choose using American power over foreign oil.
If others don't want to, that's their choice. But the technology is out there and $2 gas will not stay forever. We saw how quickly gas can rise in just a year and then two years.
If people don't want to learn from their mistakes, they deserve what they get.
The technology is not truly out there, unfortunately, because I don't believe electric cars are the answer.
Let's say the Volt existed, and it was a truly great car. To support American made cars, as well as slow the dependence on foreign oil, Americans were buying them in droves. With all of these cars needing electricity, what do you think would happen to the power supply?
I remember the blackout we had a few years back. A few too many people were running their air conditions a little too high during a heat wave and BAM. Now imagine tens of millions of cars.
Plug-In PartnersUtilities Have the Electric Capacity
Over 40% of the generating capacity in the U.S. sits idle or operates at a reduced load overnight, when most PHEVs would be charged. That means tens of millions of plug-ins could be charged every night without the need to build additional electric generation capacity. For example, Southern California Edison, an investor-owned utility, estimates that 4 million plug-in hybrids could be charged without exceeding its existing peak load. Millions more could be fueled within existing capacity.
The technology is not truly out there, unfortunately, because I don't believe electric cars are the answer.
Let's say the Volt existed, and it was a truly great car. To support American made cars, as well as slow the dependence on foreign oil, Americans were buying them in droves. With all of these cars needing electricity, what do you think would happen to the power supply?
I remember the blackout we had a few years back. A few too many people were running their air conditions a little too high during a heat wave and BAM. Now imagine tens of millions of cars.
And again you are assuming everyone will be charging their vehicles at the high point during the day.
You are also using your electric company. Maybe yours can't support it, but if the demand is out there, then upgrades can be done. Nuclear power can more easily be introduced favorably as well.
Also the volt is not a pure electric car. It is a hybrid. As such it is not going to replace ALL vehicles, but if you can shorten the amount of gas used by in city drivers, isn't that worth investing in?
As for your comment that "to support it, people have to buy it in large numbers", that is true and it isn't. Long term you are correct, short term you are not correct. Take a look at the personal computer. How many had them when they came out and what was their cost? Pretty high cost and low usage.
As more people used them, the technology advanced and they became more affordable. The same will eventually happen with electric cars.
To me it is worth the investment. I and others plan to buy the car. We'll see when gas prices go back up, who is complaining.
There is nothing out there--at present (hey, I can be optimistic!)--that is as wonderful as black gold. The amount of energy required to produce it is miniscule compared to what it takes to provide electricity/ethanol/hydrogen, etc.
-------
"What About Super Fuel Efficient
and/or Electric Cars?"
Hybrids:
Hybrids or so called "hyper-cars" aren't the answer either because the construction of an average car consumes the energy equivalent of approximately 27-54 barrels (1,110-2,200 gallons) of oil. Thus, a crash program to replace the 700 million internal combustion vehicles currently on the road with super fuel-efficient or alternative fuel-powered vehicles would consume the energy equivalent of approximately 18-36 billion barrels of oil, which is the amount of oil the world currently consumes in six-to-twelve months. Consequently, such a program (while well-intentioned) would actually bring the collapse upon us even sooner.
Peak Oil: Life After the Oil Crash
The volt is not meant to replace all vehicles. I don't know where you claim it is.
However, for those that live in the city yes, it is a good thing. I can tell you one thing. The volt will be more useful to society than the Hummer or the corvette.
It isn't going to replace everything, but to claim that it is no better than the combustible engine of the everyday person driving around the city is just plain wrong.
The battery capabilities are increasing and from the looks of the data they are using 2002 data. A lot has changed since 2002.
What I'm saying is that the Volt or any electric car is not the answer to:
1) dependence on foreign oil
2) global warming
At least definitely not now, nor the near future.
I am not even contemplating buying the volt for gloabal warming, but yes, it is a start to ending our dependence on Foreign oil.
If you show me those saying that the Volt is the end to the dependence on foreign oil I will say they is wrong. It is is a hybrid and as such will use gas when needed.
But for those that drive less than 40 miles a day it is the end of foreign oil for their car as a majority for their car source.
Isn't that better than nothing? I mean seriously. It is a start in the right direction. Over the decades of doing NOTHING about it, finally we have something that is American Made and trying to make a difference.
That is worth something to support, if not with money, than with just support of the idea IMO.
Thing is, TNE, it's takes a lot of oil to build the cars, and a lot of oil to run them. Not just the gasoline part... but the electricity.
From the same website:
People tend to think of "alternatives to oil" as somehow independent from oil. In reality, the alternatives to oil are more accurately described as "derivatives of oil." It takes massive amounts of oil and other scarce resources to locate and mine the raw materials (silver, copper, platinum, uranium, etc.) necessary to build solar panels, windmills, and nuclear power plants. It takes more oil to construct these alternatives and even more oil to distribute them, maintain them, and adapt current infrastructure to run on them.
Oil is truly "black gold":
Most people are stunned to find this out, even after confirming the accuracy of the numbers for themselves, but it makes sense when you think about it a bit: it only takes one ($3) gallon of gasoline to propel a three ton SUV 10 miles in 10 minutes when traveling 60 mph. How long would it take you to push a three ton SUV 10 miles?
While people tend to drastically underestimate the energy density of oil and gas, they drastically overestimate the energy density (and thus scalability) of renewables.
Peak Oil: Life After the Oil Crash
There is no magic bullet. A car cannot liberate us from oil or any other such grand gesture. Plug in electrics/hybrid cars are one piece of a fundamental shift from oil and coal to renewable energy sources. It will take a long time and a lot of infrastructure will need to change, because oil is indeed a large part of the energy market. That's most of the reason that it's so much cheaper to suck oil out of the ground, ship it halfway around the world, process it into whatever form of fuel you need, ship it around some more, and still be one of the cheapest liquids you can buy. That's why it's cheaper per megawatt to do all that than to put up a wind turbine or a solar farm and just harvest free energy. If we really want to wean ourselves from oil that process has to happen at every level. Once we do, however, each piece of that chain will be cheaper than oil ever can be, being a scarce resource. Between solar, wind, and wave energy there isn't a spot on Earth that doesn't have the potential to harvest energy, if only we can get to the point where it's as easy to utilize that energy as it is to use gas now. If you combine that with advance battery technology (such as nanotech supercapacitors - look it up, really cool stuff) that will make portable energy cheap and easy as well, and mankind has the potential to undergo a completely different kind of revolution. The problem is, if you look at any one piece of that process in isolation, as is common in politics, it looks weak and unprofitable.
:rantoff:
Don't disagree with what you have said, but if we do nothing where are we at? The same place we are now and the same place we were when gas prices dominated.
I'm not saying Electric or Electric Hybrid is the silver bullet to oil , but it is most definitely a start to something else other than just taking up the ass for the entirety of our fuel.
People should welcome new technology. Hell I remember talking with my grandfather when he talked about the past and he said the calculator wouldn't amount to anything because it was too expensive when it came out.
Just to give you folks another thing to worry about the middle east is with communication. It is quite clear fiber optics is the future. Guess where we have the most sand to make glass fiber optics. Oh yeah the middle east. We aren't done by a long shot there.
But if we do nothing, we recognize they hold all the cards and we must follow.
Is that what you all want?
Sorry - that was supposed to be after Middleground's post. It just took me a while to write :mrgreen:
The technology to make a good general-use electric car does not exist at this time. This product is market effluvia, which begs the question of how the needed electricity will be generated.I disagree. That makes perfect sense. GM was poised to be the first auto manufacturer to develop an cheap electric car for commercial sales...now it seems likely that Toyota or Honda will beat them.
The technology to make a good general-use electric car does not exist at this time. This product is market effluvia, which begs the question of how the needed electricity will be generated.
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