mnpollock said:Do you agree that America should switch our focus away from manufacturing jobs and find another field?
Korimyr the Rat said:No. The loss of our manufacturing base will make us economically and materially dependent upon the countries we're sending those jobs to-- most alarmingly China and Indonesia.
Do you want them to have the ability to shut our economy down?
Also, while everyone likes to point out that we have "more new jobs" there is a major and fundamental difference between a 40 hour/week full-time job with real wages benefits and a 38 hour/week "part-time" job at a quarter over minimum wage.
mnpollock said:: Do you agree that America should...on anything, I'd say the production of energy
Deegan said:That's probably exactly what we need, just like after Pearl Harbor, where we showed what America can do when she needs to. This just shows how lazy, and unmotivated we have become, when folks demand 50, 60 dollars an hour, and a healthcare package that makes me even feel less then covered, and all to turn a screw. The Unions have destroyed this country, and their close relationship to the Democratic party should be considered, money for nothin, and your checks for free.
Korimyr the Rat said:No. The loss of our manufacturing base will make us economically and materially dependent upon the countries we're sending those jobs to-- most alarmingly China and Indonesia.
Do you want them to have the ability to shut our economy down?
Also, while everyone likes to point out that we have "more new jobs" there is a major and fundamental difference between a 40 hour/week full-time job with real wages benefits and a 38 hour/week "part-time" job at a quarter over minimum wage.
mnpollock said:http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/22/news/companies/gm_delphi/index.htm?cnn=yes
Perhaps its time America realizes that we are not going to be able to hold onto our manufacturing jobs in this country. Its time to move on.
Do you agree that America should switch our focus away from manufacturing jobs and find another field? And if so, which industry do you think America should move our focus to?
mnpollock said:So just to clarify, you feel that we should fight for the manufacturing jobs and work them for minimum wage and a part time work week?
Stinger said:Well if we continue to insist that EVERY child goes to college and get some bogus degree in sociology, media, black studies, womens studies, and all the other worthless areas and then they insist government create some program to pay them or they form some non-profit to get government grants to pay them to do worthless projects.............and then they don't want to do manual labor or work in a factory.
oldreliable67 said:Stinger is on the right track.[
oldreliable67 said:At the center, the GM and Ford problems are problems not of US manufacturing but of poor management at GM and Ford.
BWG said:UH, No.
The auto manufacturing industry is doing quite well, right down here in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia an Tennesse. Good jobs, good benifits, great work environment (non-union).
bwg said:If someone is willing to pay you 'X' amount of money per hour, paid vacation, medical insurance, retirement benefits are you going to say "oh no, that's too much, I'll just work for the bare minimum and barely feed, clothe and house my family". Ludicrous!!! Hourly workers made concessions after concessions. Management screwed the pooch!! There are many high school graduate jobs that pay around the $30 an hour range and their companies aren't having these problems.
This is the "Jobs Bank," a two-decade-old program under which nearly 15,000 auto workers continue to get paid after their companies stop needing them. To earn wages and benefits that often top $100,000 a year, the workers must perform some company-approved activity. Many do volunteer jobs or go back to school. The rest must clock time in the rubber room or something like it.
It is called the rubber room, Mr. Mellon says, because "a few days in there makes you go crazy."
The Jobs Bank at GM and other U.S. auto companies including Ford Motor Co. is likely to cost around $1.4 billion to $2 billion this year. The programs, which are up for renewal next year when union contracts expire, have become a symbol of why Detroit struggles even as Japanese auto makers with big U.S. operations prosper.
While GM often blames "legacy costs" such as retiree health care and pensions for its troubles, its Job Bank shows that the company has inflicted some wounds on itself. Documents show that GM itself helped originate the Jobs Bank idea in 1984 and agreed to expand it in 1990, seeing it as a stopgap until times got better and workers could go back to the factories.
oldreliable67 said:You said "no" in response to my comment that Stinger "was on the right track". I don't know which of Stinger's comments you were indirectly referring to as not being on the right track,....
oldreliable67 said:You have quoted me with the 'management screwed the pooch" comment, so we agree on that part. But, you're getting out in left field with 'hourly workers made concessions after concessions' bit. Management agreed to union contracts that were outrageous and have strongly contributed to the current precarious situation at GM and Ford. A good example of this is the 'Rubber Room', where GM employees go to while away the time while getting paid full or near-full salary...
This is the "Jobs Bank," a two-decade-old program under which nearly 15,000 auto workers continue to get paid after their companies stop needing them. To earn wages and benefits that often top $100,000 a year, the workers must perform some company-approved activity. Many do volunteer jobs or go back to school. The rest must clock time in the rubber room or something like it.
It is called the rubber room, Mr. Mellon says, because "a few days in there makes you go crazy."
The Jobs Bank at GM and other U.S. auto companies including Ford Motor Co. is likely to cost around $1.4 billion to $2 billion this year. The programs, which are up for renewal next year when union contracts expire, have become a symbol of why Detroit struggles even as Japanese auto makers with big U.S. operations prosper.
While GM often blames "legacy costs" such as retiree health care and pensions for its troubles, its Job Bank shows that the company has inflicted some wounds on itself. Documents show that GM itself helped originate the Jobs Bank idea in 1984 and agreed to expand it in 1990, seeing it as a stopgap until times got better and workers could go back to the factories.
GM is giving out $15,820,000,000 or about $16 Billion Dollars? Wow the Suburbon has really taken a "Turn" for the worst? I mean GM should'nt have put all of their money into SUV's? That would have been a start. :roflmnpollock said:http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/22/news/companies/gm_delphi/index.htm?cnn=yes
Perhaps its time America realizes that we are not going to be able to hold onto our manufacturing jobs in this country. Its time to move on. If theres one thing that I respect most about this country is how we are constantly able to stay ahead of the game and CREATE the new cash crop industry. I started this thread to ask all of you:
Do you agree that America should switch our focus away from manufacturing jobs and find another field? And if so, which industry do you think America should move our focus to?
But because they screwed the pooch,
oldreliable67 said:I reiterate, it took both the US auto manufacturers and the UAW to create this mess. There is plenty of fault to be found with both.
oldreliable67 said:But, you're getting out in left field with 'hourly workers made concessions after concessions' bit.
scottyz said:Bad unions cost millions, but bad management cost billions. GM could afford the union costs if they could sell their products at a profit. My understanding is that despite the financial woes at GM the execs still gave themselves fat bonuses. Toyota execs get paid less and actually make their company money....
Deegan said:Since when have the Japanese allowed Unions?
Japan has 70,000 trade unions, do they not? Japan does have universal heath care and the pay and benifits offered in the U.S. are comparable to what the Union workers get. The difference is that a company like Toyota can make a profit selling cars and GM can't. The reason so many U.S. automakers are moving factories to Canada is the universal health care.Deegan said:Since when have the Japanese allowed Unions?
128shot said:in Japan, there is a Union for just about everything.
Deegan said:But nothing like Unions here, they actually have it right there, or as close to right, but miles above our broken system.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?