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Global Warming and the Rise of Sea level

Where did you people take your chemistry classes?

Water is possible one of the strangest substances on earth. Most substanced contract as they cool down, and expand as they heat up because the more excited molecules take up more space.

Water, on the other hand is the opposite. Once it cool down to 4C, it starts to expand. Likewise, once it warms up to 4C, it starts to contract. It doesn't expand both ways.
 
Alastor said:
Is your inspiration for your name Zebulon Pike by chance?
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Zebulon, leader of the Lost Tribe of Israel, who took his people into the desert, and was never heard from again... though Pike was a cool guy. :mrgreen:



A general simulation is MUCH easier to do, and very often wrong, ESPECIALLY when extrapolated over time, as you're compounding the errors inherent in the generalization of your data.

In one of the recent Discover magazines, it has an article about a waterslide manufacturer that build a waterslide for a theme park. Worked perfectly. The theme park wanted an exact duplicate for another of their parks on the other side of the country, so the manufacturer built another one, with computerized accuracy down to millimeters.

It didn't work.

Water sprayed out of the thing, forcing them to redesign one part of it to keep it from drenching people under it.

Why did it do this there, and not at the other park?

They have no idea. They say it MIGHT have something to do with dust particles being more prevalent in the new park. Maybe.

If they can't work out the dynamics of a small, contained chaotic system like a waterslide, how on EARTH can they claim to be able to figure out a massive chaotic system 20 years from now?

Can't be done.
 
Water, on the other hand is the opposite. Once it cool down to 4C, it starts to expand. Likewise, once it warms up to 4C, it starts to contract. It doesn't expand both ways.
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In a controlled environment where you heat the water from say... 35 degrees F to 60 degrees F, so that the water is neither frozen nor evaporating, and no air gets trapped in it, it does indeed expand.

In nature, I'm not sure that's the case. In a vacuum however, that's still true, even for water.
 

It's true that there are variations in volume in the degree range for one particular state. However, I was making a blanket statement about the volume of two different states, and the volume of a particular mass of solid water will always be greater that the volume of the same mass of liquid water. However, if I had continued reading past the first page than I would have seen that had already been pointed out. So nevermind.
 
Hey, Zeb!

Thanks for the links. I don't have time to peer into them just now, but I will.

Thank you for providing them.
 
Alastor said:
Hey, Zeb!

Thanks for the links. I don't have time to peer into them just now, but I will.

Thank you for providing them.
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Not a problem my friend. :mrgreen:
 
Hey Kelzie.
Post #18
 
CanadianGuy.

You started this thread. So I don't have to explain the premise.

FiremanRyan asks the question:

To which YOU answer:


After that is a bunch of posts on the water subject, and I throw my two cents in with:

 
 
Okay, since it's slightly relevant to water, and states of matter, etc., I have to share what my seven year old sister said.

My mom's a geological engineer and always throwing us into science crap. So my sister and brother are enrolled in this "science camp", and they learned about elements the other day. My sister asks my mom about states of matter, because they learned that there was such a thing as gold gas, which, to a seven year old, is a little confusing. So my mom starts putting the state of matter in terms of water, which they can understand. She then adds, "You know, even oxygen is in all the states"

My sister thinks for a minute, and responds,

"It's a good thing oxygen is in all the states. Or else they couldn't breathe!"

:rofl Oh my god classic. Kids say the coolest thing.

Anyway, I'm sure no one thinks it's funny but me. Oh well...I'll get over the rejection somehow.
 
Water evaporates, becomes clouds, it rains, process repeats! Right On! Hey did you know they do the 7 day forcast with a 32 processor computer! No wonder why they don't know whats going to happen! The computers that produce the results ONLY choose randome scenarios, and for meterologists they just come on TV and tell everyone what they heard through the grapevine! I have visted one of my local TV studios, and was supprised of what i heard!
 
teacher said:
The only other correct response on "The Great Water Debate" that I've seen is the young waif Kelzie, and SHE took me to school. Heads up boys, cute and smart.

Kelzie, move to the head of the class.
Class dismissed.
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Awww..teach..I'm hurt. My information appears to have been accurate...but no mention? Kelzie was indeed much more specific than I was...

Thank God we solved that bit about what water does. I mean, this is really breaking new ground!

Excellent work everyone. I doubt teacher, of the massive brain, himself even could have come to this conclusion on his own (aww...who am I kidding, there's no problem teach can't get on his own).

I am left wondering why I even bother to hit spell check in a post that contains no actual meaning. Oh well...here goes nothing...
 
Actully that car would be consided totaled if it ran into a sign, not to mention an SUV were to hit it. By the way do you drive standard/manual shift? NICE SIGNATURE Arch Enemy! That is a cool Sig!

Toyota Prius
Aluminum double overhead cam (DOHC) 16-valve
VVT-i 4-cylinder, 76 hp @ 5000 rpm (57 kW @ 5000 rpm) I'm a motorhead, and 76 horse power isn't much. How can someone beat that, drive another economy car called from the same manufacturer 10 years ago. 1995 Toyota : Paseo COUPE,Priuspic , Paseo is spanish for "Walk". Yet it has more power! The Paseo has A "100-horsepower, 1.5-liter 4-cylinder engine powered 1992-95 models. Starting in 1995, however, output dropped to 93 horsepower but torque went up. Either a 5-speed manual transmission or 4-speed automatic might be installed in a Paseo." Paseo Specs If there were a race against Toyota Prius, and its 10 year old counterpart Toyota Paseo, the Paseo would win hands down! That's beating it with its own brand! :mrgreen:
 
Zebulon,

I looked at your sources. I started with the one from Stanford, because that's a pretty credible institution.

They write:


Okay, so the randomness of the sun's rays are more potent than chemicals. But what impact are the chemicals actually having?

Being hit by a car is almost certainly going to hurt more than being slapped too - that doesn't reduce the pain, danger or harm caused by being slapped.

We also can't control the sun, but can control the chemicals in our environment.

Other than that it didn't really say much about the argument taking place in this thread.

This link from agu.org, seems to want to argue about a historical ice period, rather than our current one. Unless I'm missing something I don't get what this has to do with the modern phenomena of global warming.

Can you point me to something I've overlooked or misunderstood or something? It's entirely possible I did, and it would be cool of you to hook me up.

This one which is also from Agu.org, seems to support that we're manipulating our own global warming. It states:


And it goes on to state...

Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxides, and chlorofluorocarbons - the greenhouse gases - have increased significantly above preindustrial levels, and the increase is due to anthropogenic activities.
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And finally it says....

Because of their infrared absorption, increased concentrations of greenhouse gases exert a global warming influence.
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It sounds to me like this organization held a conference to figure out what they could come to a consensus on (since that's the point of the article). And they did! One of the issues they came to consensus on was that we are indeed responsible for global warming, by no small amount, and that the gases we produce in our chemicals is part of the problem.

I don't see how this is an argument against any of the popularly held beliefs about global warming. To the contrary, it seems to support those arguments.

Can you explain this to me?
 
[/QUOTE]

That is some classic smack. Keep it up. Graduate to the basement. If it's sarcasm you need some work. If it's humor you need some help. How about we drop humor or hate for this thread and you explain to me what I was trying to tell you in simple words. let's talk science. I can. You got water semi-right. Lets go brainiac. This topic. Tell you what. You pick a scientific topic, give me about......oh ....5 seconds to prepare... and we will debate......any time....I got your massive brain.....and something else, hanging. Physics, chemistry, Biology, medicine, astronomy, you pick, then dance, come on smart guy, I can find a way around this Internet shi*t, can you. I wont hold my breath.
 

Look at my posts, this thread. Oh look, I've got another 9/11 type chew toy. Run while you can.
 
Sorry, teach. Yea, I noticed you gave me credit back there. First of all, the entire thing was light hearted. That's most important.

I figured this was the end of the thread wrap up. I'm not actually hurt.

The bit about breaking new ground was a poor attempt at a joke. To be fair, I posted at 11:21pm and I don't usually stay up that late, 'cause I have a class in the morning. I was tired, so it was indeed a poor attempt at humor. I'll do better next time.

ncallaway said:
Excellent work everyone. I doubt teacher, of the massive brain, himself even could have come to this conclusion on his own (aww...who am I kidding, there's no problem teach can't get on his own).
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I decided to put all that in there because I wanted to throw you a compliment ("there's no problem teach can't get on his own"). Mostly because in the few days I've been on this board, you're one of the people I've grown to respect (note: I'm not saying that because one of your monkeys showed up today and is forcing this entire post at knife point. And if any of you are reading this I don't need help. And I don't need it right now). I like you, so I gave you a compliment. Wrapped in a poorly worded, sarcastic looking sentence. I, again, choose the sleep deficit defense, as when I look at this (as well as the last thing), I can clearly see why you interpreted it as you did.

That last bit about spell-check came in after I moved my mouse to spell check. I realized how useless it is to spell check a post that wasn't contributing to debate, but merely being a jokeish thing.

Anyway, sorry you took it wrong, I can see how you took it wrong. I was up past my bedtime, I suppose.
 
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Alastor said:
Zebulon,

Can you explain this to me?
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Read further. :mrgreen: You'll see them. It's in each and every one of those links I gave you.

And I never said that chemicals weren't having an effect. ANYTHING you do will have SOME type of effect. What MAGNITUDE of effect, and the OUTCOME of the effect in a chaotic system... that's anyone's guess, and anyone who can honestly claim to be able to not only compute that, but with an acceptable level of accuracy over time, deserves a Nobel prize.
 
Teacher,


Okay.


#okay.


No, I'm saying that the link to which I referred in that post doesn't pertain to the argument at hand. It's referring to a historical period that has no bearing on our current situation.



Very articulate. When you have something that addresses the issue or adds to the argument, let me know.


Yes, I've read this thread. I'm not trying to counter anyone's points. I'm asking Zebulon to substantiate his own and make his arguments more clear.


teacher said:
Alastor said:
And it goes on to state...
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I'm a little tea pot,
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Again, when you have something to add, let us know. In the meantime this kind of behavior is simply rude, childish, and would be better suited to a playground than a discussion among intelligent adults.




Nice argument. How can I possibly not be swayed by this logic and strong support for your cause! Complete with quotes and everything! Shouldn't you be in school about now?


You're quite arrogant for posting such asinine retorts. I am not a scholar on the issue of global warming, and simply asked Zebulon to present his argument to me.

Do you ever have anything worth saying, or is this simply how you feed your addiction for attention? I have a seven year-old nephew with the same problem, he'll do anything (including make a total ass of himself) to get attention. I believe he has properly prepared me for discourse with you.




Zebulon


Read further. You'll see them. It's in each and every one of those links I gave you.
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K. Can't right now, but I will. I did notice that I missed the final article that you linked to in entirity, so I'll read that one. The others I read, but found nothing compelling or significantly pertinent in. If you feel I've missed something, please do let me know.


Okay, well with this phrasing of your point, I would accept your stance without any discussion needed. I find that to be very believable, and indeed likely. That's not how I took your statements originally, however.
 
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I can see that, as I did mention cooling in my post. However, I was simply using that to show that there are good, scientifically trained minds that have completely opposite opinion of what could happen with the rise of global "warming".

I'll go back over my links (as I thought I chose them for their "cooling" aspects) and see what I can find. Also, I'll search for others as well.

In closing, it is my opinion that you are NOTHING like a teapot. Thank you.
 

Hey, I submitted a sub par Top ten recently. Sometimes I jump the gun as most everyone hates me here (my master plan is working) and so few have a sense-o-humor, that I assume wrongly. I'm sure if I go back and reread your post I bust a gut. Oh well. It's all good. Now Alastor, he's wound up tight. I don't think he liked my "I'm a little teapot" bit. DEFIANTLY gonna have to pick on him some more.
 

I have no problem with you advertising to the world that you're stupid. Whether you're stupid or not, or even if you're just playing, that's really not my concern.

If you want to make general statements to the world that depict you as a fool and the class idiot, feel free to do so.

When you direct it at me, however, expect me to respond accordingly.

Some of us come here to talk seriously about important issues. Some of us come here to meet girls. Some of us come here to play and be stupid. I respect and acknowledge everyone's right to be here. I won't let me serious conversations interfere with your childish banter, and I would merely ask the same in return.

If you want to be a dumbass, by all means go ahead. Just point your antics elsewhere. I don't think that's an unreasonable request.


By the way, it's "definitely" - not "Defiantly."
 
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