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Germany quits nuclear power, closes its final three plants

Gatsby

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Germany’s final three nuclear power plants close their doors on Saturday, marking the end of the country’s nuclear era that has spanned more than six decades.

Well, it finally happened. Germany is out of the nuclear power game...and since it can't yet fill the gap with renewable energy, it went right back to gas and even coal. Coal! Predictably, the pro-fossil fuel, pro-pollution, pro-climate change Green Party activists are taking a victory lap. Because in Germany (and much of Europe), being "green" isn't about environmentalism as much as it's about luddism.

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^ This is an elected Green Party representative in France, a country which (unlike Germany) actually has a sensible energy policy and gets much of its energy from nuclear power. Ugh, why is the Green Party like this?
 
I wonder what weird historical and current political reasons are behind this.
 
And people can't understand why I won't vote for Greenie Wackos!
 
That is so dumb I have no words for it.
From the outside in, support for nuclear is how I test for whether people are serious when they claim to believe in some form of climate-driven catastrophism. If they mean what they say, then they should be nuclear's biggest cheerleaders.
 
It seems shortsighted. We should invest in developing other energy production means, but currently nuclear power is the safest, cleanest energy production we have.
 
Well, it finally happened. Germany is out of the nuclear power game...and since it can't yet fill the gap with renewable energy, it went right back to gas and even coal. Coal! Predictably, the pro-fossil fuel, pro-pollution, pro-climate change Green Party activists are taking a victory lap. Because in Germany (and much of Europe), being "green" isn't about environmentalism as much as it's about luddism.

View attachment 67445104
^ This is an elected Green Party representative in France, a country which (unlike Germany) actually has a sensible energy policy and gets much of its energy from nuclear power. Ugh, why is the Green Party like this?
An extremely disappointing development.

A more paranoid person would suspect that there's Russian infiltration/financing of the Green party as a means of encouraging and reinforcing dependence on the fossil fuels that country produces.
 
Well, it finally happened. Germany is out of the nuclear power game...and since it can't yet fill the gap with renewable energy, it went right back to gas and even coal. Coal! Predictably, the pro-fossil fuel, pro-pollution, pro-climate change Green Party activists are taking a victory lap. Because in Germany (and much of Europe), being "green" isn't about environmentalism as much as it's about luddism.

View attachment 67445104
^ This is an elected Green Party representative in France, a country which (unlike Germany) actually has a sensible energy policy and gets much of its energy from nuclear power. Ugh, why is the Green Party like this?
The “Green” party has been infiltrated and is now just a red herring party.
 
It's hard for me to understand this decision when just a few months ago Europe was facing an energy nightmare. How soon we forget!
Germany has a long history of following after really stupid ideas. I'm not surprised.
 
From the outside in, support for nuclear is how I test for whether people are serious when they claim to believe in some form of climate-driven catastrophism. If they mean what they say, then they should be nuclear's biggest cheerleaders.
From the inside in, I do the same thing lol
 
I personally would like to see a push for more hydroelectric which the environmentalists also hate. It's cheap, clean, and safe.
 
Tends to mess with the ecosystem of a river though.
Yes it's not perfect. I fully concede that there are drawbacks. Overall though I think the benefits outweigh those drawbacks.
 
It seems shortsighted. We should invest in developing other energy production means, but currently nuclear power is the safest, cleanest energy production we have.
Except, of course, for the tiny problem of getting rid of the waste products safely and permanently.

Going completely nuclear would produce around 900 cu.m. of vitrified nuclear waste per year (assuming maximum recycling of spent fuel rods. That's around 300,000,000cc of vitrified nuclear waste and that's roughly 1cc of vitrified nuclear waste per person. So the simplest way of storing that nuclear waste is to issue every American 1cc per year and tell them to store it safely. Handbook slogans like "Store the waste safely, just like you store your guns and don't leave it lying around where children can get their hands on it - just like you do with your guns." will ensure total safety.

That may not seem like much, but over the average lifespan of an American they would receive roughly an average of 75 cc of vitrified nuclear waste and that is likely sufficient to produce a fatal dose of radioactive poisoning.
 
Except, of course, for the tiny problem of getting rid of the waste products safely and permanently.

Going completely nuclear would produce around 900 cu.m. of vitrified nuclear waste per year (assuming maximum recycling of spent fuel rods. That's around 300,000,000cc of vitrified nuclear waste and that's roughly 1cc of vitrified nuclear waste per person. So the simplest way of storing that nuclear waste is to issue every American 1cc per year and tell them to store it safely. Handbook slogans like "Store the waste safely, just like you store your guns and don't leave it lying around where children can get their hands on it - just like you do with your guns." will ensure total safety.

That may not seem like much, but over the average lifespan of an American they would receive roughly an average of 75 cc of vitrified nuclear waste and that is likely sufficient to produce a fatal dose of radioactive poisoning.
Incinerate the waste
 
Incinerate the waste
Great idea, send the nuclear material up into the atmosphere as minute particles and that way it will spread itself evenly over the entire country and that means that everyone will be treated equally.

You do know that "burning" stuff does not alter the number of atoms nor their proclivity to produce radioactivity, don ... Oh. sorry about that, you obviously don't.
 
Eleven years ago Germany was way out front with renewables and regulations. Huge commitment and unrealistic timelines were a fiasco for Germany.
As ignorant as Germany was it looks like the United States will be even worse. Self inflicted destruction under the green energy delusion is wrecking the future of the United States. It’s happening in front of you every day.
 
Great idea, send the nuclear material up into the atmosphere as minute particles and that way it will spread itself evenly over the entire country and that means that everyone will be treated equally.

You do know that "burning" stuff does not alter the number of atoms nor their proclivity to produce radioactivity, don ... Oh. sorry about that, you obviously don't.
I was thinking of shooting it into the sun
 
Eleven years ago Germany was way out front with renewables and regulations. Huge commitment and unrealistic timelines were a fiasco for Germany.
As ignorant as Germany was it looks like the United States will be even worse. Self inflicted destruction under the green energy delusion is wrecking the future of the United States. It’s happening in front of you every day.
There was no "green energy delusion," just lots of Green Party grifters who don't actually care about climate change. Germany never thought they had enough renewables to close the gap. They knew they didn't, and just didn't care.

Green energy is awesome, it's the cheapest form of energy, and it's growing exponentially. But it's just crazy to shut off nuclear power plants that were already operational and working fine.
 
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Except, of course, for the tiny problem of getting rid of the waste products safely and permanently.

Going completely nuclear would produce around 900 cu.m. of vitrified nuclear waste per year (assuming maximum recycling of spent fuel rods.

Are you sure about that? The US does practically no recycling, now that they have all the plutonium they need. France recycles, in fact it's an export industry for them.

I'm not suggesting we ship all our waste to France of course. I'm suggesting we reprocess it. A lot of the worst stuff comes back again as fuel. And if we can just get past the public fear of fast breeder reactors, we can do even better than France.

That's around 300,000,000cc of vitrified nuclear waste and that's roughly 1cc of vitrified nuclear waste per person. So the simplest way of storing that nuclear waste is to issue every American 1cc per year and tell them to store it safely. Handbook slogans like "Store the waste safely, just like you store your guns and don't leave it lying around where children can get their hands on it - just like you do with your guns." will ensure total safety.

That may not seem like much, but over the average lifespan of an American they would receive roughly an average of 75 cc of vitrified nuclear waste and that is likely sufficient to produce a fatal dose of radioactive poisoning.

Or we could give every American their share of radioactive fly ash from all the coal plants we've operated over the years. The result would be just as bad.

Who would have thought, TU Curmudgeon of the science threads is actually a luddite when it comes to nuclear power. I thought you'd be pushing the Thorium fuel cycle instead, but we get a folksy analogy with guns?
 
There was no "green energy delusion," just lots of Green Party grifters who don't actually care about climate change. Germany never thought they had enough renewables to close the gap. They knew they didn't, and just didn't care.

Green energy is awesome, it's the cheapest form of energy, and it's growing exponentially. But it's just crazy to shut off nuclear power plants that were already operational and working fine.

German engineering is famous. If there's any country I would trust to safely operate reactors, it would be Germany. But, er, until 2011, I would have said the same about Japan. Perhaps the Japanese wouldn't have had the problem if they had designed and built their own reactors from scratch?

Everywhere there is free speech, people are afraid of nuclear power. You can't make a primal emotion go away with sweet reason. We need to acknowledge the failure modes of PWB's and for the next generation, build reactors with a "dead man's switch" to passivate the reactor. If anything goes wrong, it dumps the core to isolate the fuel into small batches which cool quickly. We also need to address the (better founded, imo) fear of transuranic waste. Not all of our future reactors, but definitely some of them, should be based on thorium fuel.

Another thing is that we should be building smaller plants, and spreading them around more widely. People who actually live near big plants, don't fear them. But they're self-selected. If we took the small plant technology from nuclear subs (as Carter wanted to do) and built one near every major city, familiarity would erode the fear that ignorant people have.

We also need to get serious about reprocessing. The US currently does what Japan did, which is store old fuel in the same plant as a working reactor. Old fuel generates heat, it evaporates its own cooling pool. The last place on Earth you want that, is inside a plant which is melting down. Nobody wants that transuranic waste in their backyard, which is why we need to separate useable fuel from raw waste, then separate the short lived and extremely long lived waste. The short lived waste gets reprocessed again in a few years (it transmutes) while the long lived waste goes in permanent storage at Yucca Mountain. Screw the state government, they signed a contract allowing the Federal government to whatever it wanted with the mountain, and they have profited from the excavation and transport. They get bulky but nearly harmless waste which has to be stored forever. If its any consolation to them, that waste is no more dangerous underground, than natural uranium deposits.

While it may be true that nuclear power is the cheapest and safest (baseload power), it could be safer. And then maybe it wouldn't be the cheapest. I was once anti-nuclear, because I did not trust government to manage waste responsibly, on a long time scale. And that is still my concern. We need to explore even safer options, and particularly not store waste in reactor buildings. The selling point of nuclear now, is that it has virtually zero emissions, and that's worth paying for.
 
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