kaya'08
DP Veteran
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- Nov 25, 2008
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The Minister's comments were hardly a call for homos to be punished or hounded though, so noisemakers Lambda should get a grip.
I had a bit of sympathy until I saw they were just as intolerant of the Minister's position as she apparently was of theirs. Both sides want to 'treat' the other, so the irony of gay groups calling for 'tolerance' doesn't escape me.
I have no problem with homosexuals going unmolested (as it were). Just these gay groups have a tendency to call for things like primary school kids to be dosed up on propaganda, the age of homosexual consent lowered to 14 or the laws on gross indecency to be repealed.
I know full well the difference between ordinary, nice people who happen to be gay wanting to just get on with life, and the professional gays making a big noise and demand about everything. As I say, the Minister only spoke her mind about what she saw as a collapse in morals.
FYI links to the following will not be accepted as proof: WSJ, Mail, Express, Telegraph or any religious or anti-gay hate group.
What by? Your Marxist totalitarian self-censorship of things you don't like the sound of? Let's have the debate flow and finish where it pleases without any false barriers.
First off, here's a smattering of some of the 'freedom' advocates with a taste for some 'normalised' schoolboy action:
Youth groups tell Sente to keep consent age at 14
CONSENT AT 14
As I say, a different matter unless you are trying to portray gays as paedos.When you go down that road, paedophilia is sure to follow, even amongst heteros:
Please don't post links that require subscriptions. If you think I'm paying to read your links, you've got another think coming.(Labour looks riddled with child sex advocates and practitioners. We can come to that later, though here's a taste: CLAUSE 28 CURBS ON 'GAY' LESSONS TO BE SCRAPPED | News | Local Government Chronicle
Mind, some come out with credit: 'GAY LESSONS' SCHEME FOR SCHOOLS IS REJECTED IN ROTHERHAM | News | Local Government Chronicle )
Ah, I see, you ARE trying to make the link between gays and paedos.Further down the road: Jonathan King makes Vile Pervert: The Musical - Telegraph
I'd rather kids learn to to read and write properly, especially at that age:
Gay fairy tales for primary school children - from Pink News - all the latest gay news from the gay community - Pink News
Primary school children given gay assembly with Elton John song - Telegraph
Parents face court action for removing children from gay history lessons | Mail Online
Parents who protested about gay lessons for 5-year-olds 'homophobic'
"Of course, it's her opinion and she's entitled to it, but your attack on those putting their counter-opinion, calling them intolerant, is way wide of the mark."
No it isn't. Looks like both groups are intolerant, though with people on one side wanting children to be able to have sex younger and younger, maybe one is more justified than the other.
What by? Your Marxist totalitarian self-censorship of things you don't like the sound of? Let's have the debate flow and finish where it pleases without any false barriers.
First off, here's a smattering of some of the 'freedom' advocates with a taste for some 'normalised' schoolboy action:
Youth groups tell Sente to keep consent age at 14
CONSENT AT 14
Teach the pleasure of gay sex to children as young as five, say researchers | Mail Online
When you go down that road, paedophilia is sure to follow, even amongst heteros:
Paedophiles could get lighter sentences if victim 'gives consent' | Mail Online
Age of Consent at 14 Makes Canada Favoured Sex Tourism Destination
Harriet Harman also wanted to dilute child porn laws before being forced to backtrack:
Harriet Harman under attack over bid to water down child pornography law - Telegraph
(Labour looks riddled with child sex advocates and practitioners. We can come to that later, though here's a taste: CLAUSE 28 CURBS ON 'GAY' LESSONS TO BE SCRAPPED | News | Local Government Chronicle
Mind, some come out with credit: 'GAY LESSONS' SCHEME FOR SCHOOLS IS REJECTED IN ROTHERHAM | News | Local Government Chronicle )
Further down the road: Jonathan King makes Vile Pervert: The Musical - Telegraph
I'd rather kids learn to to read and write properly, especially at that age:
Gay fairy tales for primary school children - from Pink News - all the latest gay news from the gay community - Pink News
Primary school children given gay assembly with Elton John song - Telegraph
Parents face court action for removing children from gay history lessons | Mail Online
Parents who protested about gay lessons for 5-year-olds 'homophobic'
_____________________________
"Of course, it's her opinion and she's entitled to it, but your attack on those putting their counter-opinion, calling them intolerant, is way wide of the mark."
No it isn't. Looks like both groups are intolerant, though with people on one side wanting children to be able to have sex younger and younger, maybe one is more justified than the other.
Roughly one hundred people demonstrated on Istiklal Street in Istanbul on Saturday in a creative and lively protest against recent controversial comments by a government minister that have drawn significant attention in Turkey and abroad.
Homosexual male political activists in the U.S. have a long history of promotion and tolerance of pedophile groups participating under the Gay Rights umbrella, and this can verified by homosexual history sites themselves. The main incentive driving their exclusion from participation has come from Lesbian threats of boycotting parades and other activities if groups like NAMBLA were allowed to continue to participate, and also, in 1994, Bill Clinton denied support for international Gay Rights activists being granted NGO status by the UN. Even at that, a significant minority of homosexual males still spoke up in support of allowing pedophile rings to participate, but were voted down due the loss of money and NGO status. The minutes of the 1994 meeting are on the main gay rights group website's history section, so no, it's not 'proganda'. I'll find the link for you if you wish.
Harry Hays himself, the 'founder' of the homosexual rights political activism, wore a 'NAMBLA Walks With Me' button in one march in one parade NAMBLA was banned from; he was just so upset at their banning, and all.
Homosexual male political activists in the U.S. have a long history of promotion and tolerance of pedophile groups participating under the Gay Rights umbrella, and this can verified by homosexual history sites themselves. The main incentive driving their exclusion from participation has come from Lesbian threats of boycotting parades and other activities if groups like NAMBLA were allowed to continue to participate, and also, in 1994, Bill Clinton denied support for international Gay Rights activists being granted NGO status by the UN. Even at that, a significant minority of homosexual males still spoke up in support of allowing pedophile rings to participate, but were voted down due the loss of money and NGO status. The minutes of the 1994 meeting are on the main gay rights group website's history section, so no, it's not 'proganda'. I'll find the link for you if you wish.
Harry Hays himself, the 'founder' of the homosexual rights political activism, wore a 'NAMBLA Walks With Me' button in one march in one parade NAMBLA was banned from; he was just so upset at their banning, and all.
Not that anything you have said here makes any grammatical or logical sense, but if you struggle through your argument, you are saying that man-boy sex groups have tried to campaign under the gay banner but have been rejected. If that's what you are saying then you are correct.
I'm not sure who Harry Hays is. I have been involved in gay politics and activism for 30 years and I've never heard of him. What campaigns was he involved in? He certainly wasn't involved in the Clause 28 campaign, the gay marriage campaign in any of the countries it was successful, the successful campaign to have ILGA accepted for UN observer status. Who is he again?
You may be trying to link gay rights campaigns with paedophilia, but I think you need to try harder.
You know what I just read?
Blah blah politics and the UN, blah blah something about Bill Clinton.
:2wave:
RAINING ON NAMBLA'S PARADE
I got goose bumps when Melissa Farley told me about what she did at the 1992 Gay Pride Parade, attended by some 500,000 spectators, in San Francisco. It's an excellent example of how we can publicly challenge NAMBLA and other organizations of that ilk. Like some of the best actions, this one was a spur-of-the-moment thing. When she got to the parade, she first searched the length of it to find the NAMBLA contingent. She spoke with many of them, one of whom proudly informed her that he had just been released from two years in jail in Thailand on charges of child trafficking. She then marched, much to their dismay, directly behind their group, carrying two signs that read: "Pedophilia NOT!" (the NOT! in multi-colored glitter, of course), and "The Solution to Teenage Homophobia is not Pedophilia."
It was a brave action because she did not know what to expect, NAMBLA having been an established part of the parade for 15 years, with only pockets of resistance so far. She figured she'd be hissed and booed, but instead it was NAMBLA that the crowd berated. After the parade, a television reporter approached her and said NAMBLA had claimed that 80% of the gay and lesbian community supported them. But, after seeing the crowd's positive response to her signs, he said it was obvious there was "very little support for NAMBLA in the gay community in the Bay Area."
"It feels like the tide has turned," Melissa told me. Indeed, there have recently been rip-tide intense letter exchanges in the gay newspapers in San Francisco, with increasing numbers of people calling for the immediate expulsion of NAMBLA from future parades, not only because of their exploitation of children but also because of NAMBLA's opportunistic leeching onto the lesbian and gay community. One letter said: "They must be politically isolated and allowed to twist in the wind of their own hypocritical rhetoric."
Mike Echols, an imposing activist who had infiltrated the San Francisco Chapter of NAMBLA by posing as a rich homosexual pedophile who wanted to give NAMBLA money, set up an exposé with several Bay Area reporters. NAMBLA was barred from holding public meetings at their usual public library location after their meeting was broadcast by KRON television. I'd have given anything to have been there when Echols and reporters pulled out a hidden video camera and NAMBLA members scrambled for cover like cockroaches when the kitchen light goes on.
Several days later Echols dealt NAMBLA another blow during a brief but memorable television interview when it was revealed that a spokesman for NAMBLA, who claimed that none of the groups' members had ever been arrested in San Francisco, had himself been arrested, convicted, and was currently on probation for solicitation of a 9-year-old boy. Subsequently the man was arrested for violating his probation because of information that came to light as a result of Echol's work. Why can't more people take his initiative?
These stories illustrate how much can be accomplished by people who care about stopping sexual exploitation. Both these activists have had a significant impact on reducing NAMBLA's public image, and are role models for true feminist and pro-feminist activists!
I don't think anybody has questioned your demonstrated ignorance. If you missed out on Harry Hays, after some claimed '30 years of activism', that explains a lot about your 'activism'.
So, aren't homosexuals these days hopping around and claiming being gay is 'genetic' and inborn? Now they're protesting a minister who agrees with them that it is indeed a biological condition? They can't make up their minds, obviously, one way or another. Gay Rights groups themselves went down the biological condition route, 'We're born gay!!!', so they really have no complaint here. It was a hopelessly bad propaganda ploy on their part, eh?
I've just Wiki'd him. Harry Hay sounds like a great man.
You are clearly in the gay hate camp.
I'm not going to debate the ludicrous and offensive thesis that gay people are all paedophiles or paedophile supporters.
You can get your homophobe jollies somewhere else.
If you have something to argue about the demonstrations in Istanbul, please feel free to contribute, otherwise start your own thread on your extremist theories somewhere else.
Moderator's Warning: |
Is there a specific reason you chose not to include the whole of the minister's statement?
She also said, “It needs to be treated.”
I don't think anyone in the Gay Rights movement has tried to put forward that homosexuality is either a "disease" or "treatable"
The UK went down the treatment and therapy route years ago and failed.
Gay rights activists in Turkey are exercising their democratic right to criticise a government minister for her homophobic statements.
I know a number of the Lambda activists and the issues that they are campaigning on, which go well beyond the scope of this one issue. These are:
Clearly the homophobia of a government minister
Saying homosexuality is a disease and should be treated isn't 'homophobic', in fact it shows a concern for those afflicted with it, in her opinion. Running around throwing out ad hominems that there is no evidence for isn't really a 'right', it's merely stupid and an attempt to slander.
Since it has been proven that homosexuality is NOT a disease, treating it as such is unethical. You are doing nothing but presenting inaccurate information as did this particular minister.
There is no conclusive evidence it's not a genetic defect, so it's fair game. The minister is not out of line. How do you know the information is 'inaccurate'? That is just opinion, not fact. There is a difference between fact and opinion and wishful thinking.
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