You should educate yourself on African Elephants. They are not like the whitetail deer in your backyard. They are nearly as smart as we are. They experience every emotion we do. They are self aware. They are capable of empathy and have a notion of right and wrong. They also mourn their dead. I have no problem with hunting. I grew up hunting, most of my friends hunt, most of my family hunts. But in my opinion a creature like an elephant ought to enjoy every right to life that we enjoy. If you experience the same emotions, family ties, and mourn your dead just like we humans do, then you ought to have the same right to life that we humans enjoy and unless that elephant is a clear danger to people, it shouldn't be killed.
Not where hunting them is legal.
Where hunting them is legal they are an economic resource
Personally I go to the deer woods and hang at camp. I shoot lots of animals on my property that cause various harm to my ranch and livestock. But I don't travel to Kenya to shoot elephants. That's stupid.
Managed would be fine but when I read:
African elephant numbers collapsing : Nature News & Comment
100,000 Elephants Killed by Poachers in Just Three Years, Landmark Analysis Finds
You might have a different opinion if you're a subsistence farmer making less then a dollar a day and the damn thing is uprooting your crops again.
The moralism of killing creatures "almost as smart as us" doesn't move me, dogs mourn their own too, and they're on the menu as well most places outside of Europe and North America
They are not "They are nearly as smart as we are" not even close. They are intelligent as far as animals go, but this does not afford them "human" status.
No country propers by destroying its ecosystem.
well clearly it's not otherwise they would be assisting the police and prosecuting poachers or not poaching them themselvesIts every bit as much interest for the poor farmer to protect their elephants as it is for anyone else.
Moreover, a dog is simply not comparable to an elephant in terms of intelligence or emotional capability.
No country propers by destroying its ecosystem. Its every bit as much interest for the poor farmer to protect their elephants as it is for anyone else. Moreover, a dog is simply not comparable to an elephant in terms of intelligence or emotional capability.
That is your opinion, I think he hunts an endangered species (vulnerable with some sources saying the animal could be wiped out in the wild in 10 years or so) and that makes him not deserving of my empathy for loosing his life while hunting elephants. I do not wish death upon him and I am sorry if his death has been painful, but the only ones I feel sorry for is his family.
You may not agree with that but that is the great thing of humanity, we can agree to disagree. I would have wished he had not died but I do not feel sorry for him now that he has died during the hunting of an elephant.
crime-psychobabble much? its not a crime just because a left wing american thinks it is
You can mock me all you want-I just laugh at Bambistas who are clueless about other countries and their natural resources
You're being a bit righteous IMO. I'm not cheering his death but I don't lament it either. It's called non-attachment. You engage in a high risk sport and you could die. I don't care to partake in the veneration of some human who I don't even know and have zero loyalty toward.
It just also so happens that I find trophy elephant hunting to be outdated and immoral, regardless if it's legal or not. The ivory trade is fueled by selfish morons who are part of the era that believes in the prestige of ivory ownership. Zero respect for that, and one less hunter on planet earth is one more protection for the elephants who are by most measure quite sentient and did not ask to be attacked. If a rape victim managed to kill their attacker I wouldn't shed a tear over that either.
So yeah, nitpick over how immoral we all are for not getting down on our knees and balling because some old fogey hunter finally got his karmic reward for all the pain he has caused wild animals. I would not mourn whalers, Alaskan fishermen, or anyone else either. People's choices lead to consequences and that's not my problem.
But I guess whatever makes you feel like the homo superior. :shrug:
umm,the science has been in for decades and decades...it works and there's no getting around that.
listen, coming to a science fight armed with tears and emotions doesn't mean it's an actual debate...it's not.
sometimes it sucks when our emotions get in the way of doing the right thing, but we're humans, and that's how we roll sometimes...
again, focus on the folks who do damage... poachers.
Really? I would dispute that statement. well clearly it's not otherwise they would be assisting the police and prosecuting poachers or not poaching them themselves
Purely a subjective standard only you understand.
Those articles are true for Africa as a whole, but false for individual countries. Some African countries (South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, and possibly Zimbabwe) have very sustainable herds that need to be culled.
Though most of the people doing the culling (wealthy game hunters) have pleasant personalities, their numbers undoubtably include a few wealthy jerks. That does not detract from the money that they spend locally, nor does it detract from the needed culling they provide. Likewise alot of eco tourism attract wealthy customers. Undoubtably, their numbers include a few wealthy jerks as well- just with a different socio poltical spin.
According to the Elephant Database, which receives reports from the International Union for Conservation of Natural African Elephant Specialist Group, a network of governments and nonprofits, there were 47,366 elephants in Zimbabwe in 2012, down from 84,416 in 2007. Rodrigues said that the Great Elephant Census, a project led by Paul G. Allen, the American philanthropist, to calculate the number of elephants in the southern African region by 2016, had counted about 20,000 elephants so far in the past year.
The national survey of Elephants in Zimbabwe: preliminary 2014 results show that elephant numbers have decreased by about 75% in the combined Matusadona and Chizarira areas.
For Elephants in Zimbabwe, a Deeply Troubling Present and Future | passblue
This does not sound like culling but this sounds like massacring the elephants, in 7 years the number seems to have gone down by 37,000, the elephants in that region cannot survive another 7 years like
The herald of New Zealand has a piece on this hunt in Zimbabwe Jumbo population down 40pc | The Herald
Where it is written:
They are a lot smarter than you realize then. For example if an elephant wants to disable an electric fence, they don't typically just break the fence, they find the fence charger and destroy it. I am not saying they should have the right to vote, but they sure as hell ought to enjoy the right to live their life unless they are a clear danger to humans.
The Science Is In: Elephants Are Even Smarter Than We Realized [Video] - Scientific American
Elephant cognition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For most the pure exhilaration of being out and about in an area controlled completely by the native animal population is something that will never be experienced. I'm not a big game hunting advocate. However, being out and about in Africa is something unforgettable. It's definitely not for most people. Too bad this fellow died, but he knew the risks. That's why he was there.
He wasn't in a primeval wilderness, he was on a game reserve. I would love to go to Africa but lets call a spade a spade here. This guy was on what is little more than a canned hunt. If you want the true primeval wilderness experience, strap a pack on and head out to one of our large federal wilderness areas out west or up in Canada. Hell I have stood on glaciers with my son where we were days walk from the nearest road, and no locals drove us up there in a land rover, set up all our camps for us, and carted our gear around. If something happened or if the rare event we had an issue with a grizzly, the only way of getting help would be with a sat phone. That is a true primeval experience. Going on some canned hunt / luxury safari in Africa isn't. Its what wealthy westerners do when they want to pretend they are a badass.
Again this has nothing to do with the thinning of herds for the welfare of the animals and man.
In the end they are still nowhere even close to human intelligence. So no, they are no smarter than I realize...
"This is the first experimental evidence for learned cooperative behavior in this socially sophisticated species," Reiss noted. Clayton said the findings support the theory "that cognitive abilities evolved independently in animals that are as very distantly related from us as elephants and crows." - Elephants Outwit Humans During Intelligence Test : Discovery News
The risks remain, especially in Africa, whether it's on a game reserve or not. There are large swaths of Africa designated as game reserves for purposes of protecting the wildlife. Of course, there are other areas that are as you describe. I've been in wilderness all over the place, including Africa - not hunting. I also hunt from time to time.
The hunt was in a remote area of Zimbabwe, a country where elephant populations are collapsing. The Number of Elephants in Parts of Zimbabwe Is Plunging - Bloomberg Business
The threat is from "poachers" not legal hunts. Huge difference. The first line in your article...
Elephants are under threat from poachers in Zimbabwe
So you are now trying to compare legal sanctioned hunts to poaching?
When will this ridiculous pass time be banned?
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