Functioning Capitalism vs. Less Immigration

[Dans La Lune]

Which is more important to you? These things are at odds. The workforce cannot operate at current levels without a steady influx of immigrants.

Before right-wingers respond with "We support LEGAL immigration"...

1) No, you don't.
2) A few dozen Afrikaners cannot sustain the economy.

 

[quip]

 

[aociswundumho]

More workers would definitely be better, but because of the progressive regulatory state, the market isn't allowed to increase the supply of housing to match.

 

[Mycroft]

Which is more important to you? These things are at odds. The workforce cannot operate at current levels without a steady influx of immigrants.

I disagree.

Before right-wingers respond with "We support LEGAL immigration"...

1) No, you don't.
2) A few dozen Afrikaners cannot sustain the economy.

Well, there goes any chance that the OP is interested in reasoned discussion.

/thread

 

[Dans La Lune]

I disagree.

Great argument.

Well, there goes any chance that the OP is interested in reasoned discussion.

A reasoned discussion needs to be predicated on facts.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Trump administration throws out protections from deportation for roughly half a million Haitians

The Trump administration is throwing out protections for roughly half a million Haitians that had shielded them from deportation.

apnews.com

 

[dmpi]

Immigrant workers (which is only a subset of immigrants) shouldn't be a substitute for American workers unwilling to get a job and join the workforce.

 

[Mycroft]

Great argument.

shrug...

When you categorically dismiss an entire line of discussion with a "These things are at odds.", a "1) No, you don't." and an irrelevant deflection ("2) A few dozen Afrikaners cannot sustain the economy."), then all that's left is to simply disagree.

A reasoned discussion needs to be predicated on facts.

And you refuse to entertain facts right out the gate.

Like I said...Well, there goes any chance that the OP is interested in reasoned discussion.

 

[Fletch]

Which is more important to you? These things are at odds. The workforce cannot operate at current levels without a steady influx of immigrants.

Before right-wingers respond with "We support LEGAL immigration"...

1) No, you don't.
2) A few dozen Afrikaners cannot sustain the economy.

Before left wingers get to pretend they care about functioning capitalism

1) No you dont
2) You want to flood the country with migrants so that you can get them a path to citizenship to increase the democrat party's voter rolls.

Discuss

 

[Visbek]

I vote for a functional economy, not necessarily "functional capitalism."

 

[Jason Warfield]

shrug...

When you categorically dismiss an entire line of discussion with a "These things are at odds.", a "1) No, you don't." and an irrelevant deflection ("2) A few dozen Afrikaners cannot sustain the economy."), then all that's left is to simply disagree.


And you refuse to entertain facts right out the gate.

Like I said...Well, there goes any chance that the OP is interested in reasoned discussion.

So, why did you bother to respond at all?

Incidentally, you can actually debate OP by ignoring his numbered statements since they aren't actually necessary to respond to as they aren't the condition being posited and that there are other ways for you to argue for legal immigration. But that means that you actually have to debate. or other related issues. I don't see how you can just claim this not a debatable position. But if you do...then don't respond and move on to something else.

 

[Jason Warfield]

Before left wingers get to pretend they care about functioning capitalism

1) No you dont
2) You want to flood the country with migrants so that you can get them a path to citizenship to increase the democrat party's voter rolls.

Discuss

1) We do, we just want to make sure that it's sustainable, which it currently isn't, which you probably disagree with.
2) In order for that to happen, they have to become instant citizens en masse, which isn't going to happen, no matter which party is in charge and that's a good thing. Also, trump is also trying to do the same thing, only with immigrants that are acceptable racially...that's not going to work either, but he's trying!

I think the solution here is that if you want Americans to work, then provide a living wage (a GOP argument) and benefits for them to do the jobs they see as beneath them that will pay very little. Crack down on those who hire illegals, so they don't have to pay a living wage and benefits (a capitalist argument) in hiring illegals. And if you aren't willing to do those things...at the very least...the you will have to rely on illegal immigrants to get those jobs done since Americans won't. And capitalists will enjoy that as it will increase their margins.

 

[Mycroft]

So, why did you bother to respond at all?

Incidentally, you can actually debate OP by ignoring his numbered statements since they aren't actually necessary to respond to as they aren't the condition being posited and that there are other ways for you to argue for legal immigration. But that means that you actually have to debate. or other related issues. I don't see how you can just claim this not a debatable position. But if you do...then don't respond and move on to something else.

shrug...

You do it your way. I'll do it my way.

If you don't like my way...too ****ing bad. I don't care.

 

[Ikari]

I think for a healthy capitalist economy with innovation and progress, immigration is necessary. Immigration is good for this. I don't necessarily see this at odds.

 

[Along Came Jones]

I think for a healthy capitalist economy with innovation and progress, immigration is necessary. Immigration is good for this. I don't necessarily see this at odds.

You're right. You don't necessarily see this at odds because it simply isn't at odds with capitalism . . . or at odds with any other economic system.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Before left wingers get to pretend they care about functioning capitalism

1) No you dont
2) You want to flood the country with migrants so that you can get them a path to citizenship to increase the democrat party's voter rolls.

Discuss

The choice is not for me. I'm not a capitalist, and I support immigration. Your ideology is imperiled by this question, not mine. My ideology is not in conflict with reality.

 

[Dans La Lune]

I think for a healthy capitalist economy with innovation and progress, immigration is necessary. Immigration is good for this. I don't necessarily see this at odds.

The conflict is in wanting a functioning capitalist economy without steady immigration. Thus, the question is more aimed at the right-wing who want both maximum capitalism and a decrease in immigration.

 

[Ikari]

The conflict is in wanting a functioning capitalist economy without steady immigration. Thus, the question is more aimed at the right-wing who want both maximum capitalism and a decrease in immigration.

MAGA isn't looking to maximize capitalism. Look at their big government, central planning, tariffs war. That's not free market, that's government price setting.

 

[bomberfox]

MAGA isn't looking to maximize capitalism. Look at their big government, central planning, tariffs war. That's not free market, that's government price setting.

Capitalist control of the government is still capitalism. It is applying capitalist logic to the government (think the GOP’s goal of running the government like a business and buying politicians like commodities). Its not free market but capitalism is not defined by free markets.

 

[Ikari]

Capitalist control of the government is still capitalism. It is applying capitalist logic to the government (think the GOP’s goal of running the government like a business and buying politicians like commodities). Its not free market but capitalism is not defined by free markets.

Free market capitalism has long been the rallying cry of conservatives. But they must like government controlled, captured markets instead. Sad.

 

[Dans La Lune]

Free market capitalism has long been the rallying cry of conservatives. But they must like government controlled, captured markets instead. Sad.

There is no such thing as Free Market Capitalism. Government is always in control. It's just a matter of who controls government. Government always intervenes in the economy, and in a capitalist society, it is intervention in favor of capitalists.

 

[Fletch]

The choice is not for me. I'm not a capitalist, and I support immigration. Your ideology is imperiled by this question, not mine. My ideology is not in conflict with reality.

I support immigration as well. Legal immigration. Ooops, thats right, Im not allowed to say that.

 

[BirdinHand]

Immigrant workers (which is only a subset of immigrants) shouldn't be a substitute for American workers unwilling to get a job and join the workforce.

What employer wants to hire people that don’t want to work for them?

Do MAGAs even think about the shit they post?

If John or Karen Doe don’t want a job, why on earth would an employer want to hire them for that job? Or why should an employer be forced to settle for an unwilling employee that’s going to do a mediocre job and leave as soon as they can?

The lack of critical thinking displayed by this thought process and post is truly amazing.

 

[BirdinHand]

Free market capitalism has long been the rallying cry of conservatives. But they must like government controlled, captured markets instead. Sad.

Weak leaders need to dictate and control a population

 

[BirdinHand]

You want to flood the country with migrants so that you can get them a path to citizenship to increase the democrat party's voter rolls

What evidence do you have that supports this?


Because here on Earth 1, employers are desperate to hire qualified employees in just about every segment of our economy (or rather were…prior to 2.0 destabilizing the economy)

They’ve been reliant upon immigrants - in most every field - to fill holes and gaps in the employment pipeline. Because we have been at a full employment situation for years.

I’ve seen no movement to change immigration law - from either side of the aisle - until 2024.

Many immigrants get trapped in quasi serfdom and indentured servitude under current immigrations law, in fact.

Many others simply are content to attain permanent residency and have absolutely no desire to even become US citizens - because they prefer to remain citizens of their home country.