French seek US tariff exemption for champagne and other drinks

[Juin]

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I am a little baffled. It is the US consumer who will be paying for the tariffs, what is France's concern in the matter? If tariffs are a tax, then it is a tax by the US Federal government on US consumers. A US internal matter. Why is France interfering in US internal matters. Is France objecting to taxation on its wines given that it has no representation in the taxing government?



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France is pushing for champagne and other wines and spirits to be exempt from US tariffs as European officials seek to extract more carve-outs in a trade deal with Washington expected to enter into force on Friday.

An agreement reached by the EU with US President Donald Trump on Sunday has created confusion in Brussels and Paris over which products will be excluded from a new 15 per cent tariff applying to most European goods imported by the US.

EU officials insist that talks with Washington are continuing, including on alcoholic beverages. But US officials have said that there will be no carve-outs for spirits and wines, including champagne.

Finance minister Éric Lombard told French newspaper Liberation on Monday that an exemption that had been granted to the aviation industry “should apply to spirits”. Junior trade minister Laurent Saint-Martin suggested that France was close to clinching such status for cognac and other spirits. “We understand that spirits are indeed exempted,” he said.
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French seek US tariff exemption for champagne and other drinks

Confusion persists over which EU products will be exempt from 15% levy expected to enter into force on Friday

www.ft.com

 

[Callen]

EU officials insist that talks with Washington are continuing, including on alcoholic beverages. But US officials have said that there will be no carve-outs for spirits and wines, including champagne.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Trump hates California

 

[Mycroft]

I am a little baffled. It is the US consumer who will be paying for the tariffs, what is France's concern in the matter? If tariffs are a tax, then it is a tax by the US Federal government on US consumers. A US internal matter. Why is France interfering in US internal matters. Is France objecting to taxation on its wines given that it has no representation in the taxing government?

What many people pretend not to understand...or are too ignorant to understand...but which those French alcohol producers FULLY understand...is that tariffs result in loss of sales.

 

[Callen]

I am a little baffled. It is the US consumer who will be paying for the tariffs, what is France's concern in the matter? If tariffs are a tax, then it is a tax by the US Federal government on US consumers. A US internal matter. Why is France interfering in US internal matters. Is France objecting to taxation on its wines given that it has no representation in the taxing government?

Really, I think you know why? The tariff's make France's wines more expensive and therefore less competitive with American wines. Actually this is one area where tariffs make a level of strategic sense.

 

[Grand Mal]

Really, I think you know why? The tariff's make France's wines more expensive and therefore less competitive with American wines. Actually this is one area where tariffs make a level of strategic sense.

It amounts to a subsidy. American wine makers can't compete on a level field so the government tilts it.

 

[Grand Mal]

Really, I think you know why? The tariff's make France's wines more expensive and therefore less competitive with American wines. Actually this is one area where tariffs make a level of strategic sense.

It amounts to a subsidy. American wine makers can't compete on a level field so the government tilts it.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

What many people pretend not to understand...or are too ignorant to understand...but which those French alcohol producers FULLY understand...is that tariffs result in loss of sales.

Everyone knows tariffs result in sales loss so don't try and make out that you hit on some secret sauce somewhere. We also try and tell you that tariffs are paid by the American consumer that buys goods that have tariffs on them.

 

[Mycroft]

Everyone knows tariffs result in sales loss so don't try and make out that you hit on some secret sauce somewhere.

It's not a secret. It's a no-brainer that people with an agenda and people with no brains won't admit is reality.

We also try and tell you that tariffs are paid by the American consumer that buys goods that have tariffs on them.

Only if they American consumer buys the goods. With tariffs in effect, many consumers won't buy the goods, resulting in loss of sales by the producer.

 

[PeteEU]

It's not a secret. It's a no-brainer that people with an agenda and people with no brains won't admit is reality.

This is an hilarious comment...

Only if they American consumer buys the goods. With tariffs in effect, many consumers won't buy the goods, resulting in loss of sales by the producer.

Yes only if American consumers buys goods...

One thing you and your Dementia Don friends don't understand, is that American consumers are screwed regardless. Domestic produced alternatives often also increase in price, so to match the imported price. So the end result is not getting more domestic production. A real world example..

Tariffs don’t all act the same

The Trump administration is set to slap a broad set of tariffs on imported goods. Similar policies have had a range of impacts in the past.

www.reuters.com

So say an imported item was 10 dollars before tariffs and a domestic produced alternative was 11 dollars. A new 25% tariff pushes the imported item to 12.5 dollars making it more expensive than the domestic version. The domestic producer will then raise his price to 12.5 dollars as well.

And this is of course not taking into account all the other tariffs effecting logistics to raw materials and so on.

 

[PeteEU]

As for the subject at hand. The 15% only really effects the low end of the market no..if at all?

If you are a wine drinker, you go after quality first, then price. While California wines are adequate for the most part, they don't have the "aura" of "we are drinking French wine" or other European wines. It is a bit like.. sure we can buy a "luxury" American car, but we really like Porsche or Mercedes because of the name..

As for Champagne....those who consume it don't care that it is more expensive.

Also there is a good chance that domestic producers of wine and spirits in the US will just raise their prices to match the imported stuff as it is " free profit". They are after all already price competitive for the most part.

 

[devildavid]

If Americans stop buying French wine then Trump will no longer have leverage over France to impose tariffs. And France will have no reason to buy American goods as their economy will be harmed by American tariffs to the point that they have no reason to do so. They will not accept or adhere to a one way deal in which only America benefits. So will Trump sue them? Why would they accept lower sales to the US and also buy more from the US? This is the very thing that Trump claims countries are doing to us. Why would they accept it happening to them unless they can still benefit from the US market that tariffs effectively kill for them? Trump is shutting off the American market and trying to force feed American goods to countries whose economies he is helping to harm. They have zero incentive to abide by such a lopsided agreement.

 

[Aristaeus]

As for the subject at hand. The 15% only really effects the low end of the market no..if at all?

If you are a wine drinker, you go after quality first, then price. While California wines are adequate for the most part, they don't have the "aura" of "we are drinking French wine" or other European wines. It is a bit like.. sure we can buy a "luxury" American car, but we really like Porsche or Mercedes because of the name..

As for Champagne....those who consume it don't care that it is more expensive.

Also there is a good chance that domestic producers of wine and spirits in the US will just raise their prices to match the imported stuff as it is " free profit". They are after all already price competitive for the most part.

California can produce wine just as good as anything from France.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Only if they American consumer buys the goods. With tariffs in effect, many consumers won't buy the goods, resulting in loss of sales by the producer.

Prices tend to stabilise across competition, domestic producers may see a large gap and raise their own prices to make more profit. Besides that, Europe has its own tariffs that can be put in place.

It's not a secret. It's a no-brainer that people with an agenda and people with no brains won't admit is reality.

Meaningless trite.

As for Champagne....those who consume it don't care that it is more expensive.

People who spend hundreds of thousands on a car won't care that champagne or other luxury goods have gone up in price. A tariff on a Porsche or Ferrari isn't going to change some buying habits in the slightest.

 

[PeteEU]

California can produce wine just as good as anything from France.

Sure..not saying they cant. It is after all imported French wine plants.. but there is one hell of a difference between saying "oh lets have this California Wine" and " oh lets have this French wine from so and so and its a 1993!".. there is an aura of exclusivity with French wines.. well some.

It is a bit like an phone is a phone.. but iPhone is some how so special that we can take so much more money.

 

[PeteEU]

People who spend hundreds of thousands on a car won't care that champagne or other luxury goods have gone up in price. A tariff on a Porsche or Ferrari isn't going to change some buying habits in the slightest.

Not to mention, American made car prices are most likely going up more than 15% because of steel and aluminium tariffs and other tariffs on chips and stuff.. so chances are zero effect or even cheaper European made cars...

 

[Mycroft]

This is an hilarious comment...


Yes only if American consumers buys goods...

One thing you and your Dementia Don friends don't understand, is that American consumers are screwed regardless. Domestic produced alternatives often also increase in price, so to match the imported price. So the end result is not getting more domestic production. A real world example..

Tariffs don’t all act the same

The Trump administration is set to slap a broad set of tariffs on imported goods. Similar policies have had a range of impacts in the past.

www.reuters.com

So say an imported item was 10 dollars before tariffs and a domestic produced alternative was 11 dollars. A new 25% tariff pushes the imported item to 12.5 dollars making it more expensive than the domestic version. The domestic producer will then raise his price to 12.5 dollars as well.

And this is of course not taking into account all the other tariffs effecting logistics to raw materials and so on.

As for the subject at hand. The 15% only really effects the low end of the market no..if at all?

If you are a wine drinker, you go after quality first, then price. While California wines are adequate for the most part, they don't have the "aura" of "we are drinking French wine" or other European wines. It is a bit like.. sure we can buy a "luxury" American car, but we really like Porsche or Mercedes because of the name..

As for Champagne....those who consume it don't care that it is more expensive.

Also there is a good chance that domestic producers of wine and spirits in the US will just raise their prices to match the imported stuff as it is " free profit". They are after all already price competitive for the most part.

Prices tend to stabilise across competition, domestic producers may see a large gap and raise their own prices to make more profit. Besides that, Europe has its own tariffs that can be put in place.



Meaningless trite.



People who spend hundreds of thousands on a car won't care that champagne or other luxury goods have gone up in price. A tariff on a Porsche or Ferrari isn't going to change some buying habits in the slightest.

You both are trying very hard to explain away the effects of the tariffs, but the fact is in this case, the French wine makers are trying VERY HARD to get their products exempted. If your explanations were valid, they'd have nothing to worry about.

That means your explanations are bullshit.

 

[Aristaeus]

Sure..not saying they cant. It is after all imported French wine plants.. but there is one hell of a difference between saying "oh lets have this California Wine" and " oh lets have this French wine from so and so and its a 1993!".. there is an aura of exclusivity with French wines.. well some.

It is a bit like an phone is a phone.. but iPhone is some how so special that we can take so much more money.

Exclusivity comes from price, not country. I could have a £20 Châteauneuf-du-Pape from France or a £800 Harlan estate wine from California.

 

[PeteEU]

You both are trying very hard to explain away the effects of the tariffs, but the fact is in this case, the French wine makers are trying VERY HARD to get their products exempted. If your explanations were valid, they'd have nothing to worry about.

That means your explanations are bullshit.

Of course they want exceptions.. no one likes tariffs. It does not mean they will see a big hit in sales.

 

[Callen]

California can produce wine just as good as anything from France.

When it comes to the States it is often quantity that is the problem. They can produce lots of stuff but not in the quantities demanded by a population of over 300M people. Then again I guess they can use the wine Canada isn't buying....

 

[Mycroft]

Of course they want exceptions.. no one likes tariffs. It does not mean they will see a big hit in sales.

Nonsense.

If the tariffs won't affect them, they wouldn't care about them. They'll just keep on selling their wine.

 

[PeteEU]

Nonsense.

If the tariffs won't affect them, they wouldn't care about them. They'll just keep on selling their wine.

You do understand basic English right? I said won't see a big hit in sales.. mean the tariffs will have an effect..Americans will buy less wine overall, due to paying at least 7.5% more of not the full 15%...for both domestic wine and imported wine.

It seems you don't know basic economics, just like your dementia pedo President.

 

[Rumpel]

champagne is overpriced anyhow

 

[MAGAnificent]

Really, I think you know why? The tariff's make France's wines more expensive and therefore less competitive with American wines. Actually this is one area where tariffs make a level of strategic sense.

You finally get it. Tariffs even the playing field so American companies can compete in America.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Everyone knows tariffs result in sales loss so don't try and make out that you hit on some secret sauce somewhere. We also try and tell you that tariffs are paid by the American consumer that buys goods that have tariffs on them.

Many of us baby boomers grew up understanding that imports cost a bit more. Trump's tariffs are getting us back to that era of fair play.

 

[Irredentist]

You finally get it. Tariffs even the playing field so American companies can compete in America.

**** that. I don't want to pay extra for French wine just because some asshole in Washington thinks I should be buying American.