Yea they talk big but how many will actually do what they say? Im willing to bet none and how many are actually against the Patriot Act, the Drug War and our cluster**** foreign policy the only one by my count is still Ron Paul. Libertarians arent just about economics.
that's a fair point about foriegn policy; even Rand Paul admits that his fathers' foriegn policy is rather unrealistic. as for voting, however, the question we were asking was, if they don't vote libertarian, is the Republican candidate closer to their core values, or the Democrat? as pointed out, the choice isn't realistically between Good and Evil (well, maybe with Alan Grayson), it's between Less Bad and More Bad; and it's fairly solidly within the American tradition in that instance to go with Less Bad rather than holding our breath, stomping our feet, and insisting that Reality produce a happy alternative for us. When trying to beat Hitler, we will ally ourselves even with Stalin. indeed, that recognition that Public Policy is usually about choosing the least bad among the available realistic alternatives is a critical underpinning of American conservatism, of which Libertarianism is a strain; it stems from our natural recognition that we live in an imperfect and fallen world in which 'creating a new man' is not possible.
Democrats have their own third parties that run against them the Greens are the biggest nationally but at least in NY there are at least three, four if you include the Independence Party.
yup, and the effect on them is the same. how many members of the Green Party, do you think, wanted George Bush to be president? yet that was the result of their votes in 2000.
conservative third parties (libertarians, constitutionalists, and the like) have been aided by Democrats, seeking to bleed out the effect of a Tea Party conservative surge.
because they recognize that elections are a zero-sum game, and that a vote for a libertarian or constitutionalist or tea party candidate is in effect, a vote for a democrat.
Yea and they somehow always find their way when Team Blue gets in power, squawk good rhetoric and do the opposite.
certainly that is a significant part of their rule in this decade; and their behavior sparked a mass protest movement and an internal revolution against the party establishment. we shall have to see if it is capable of holding their feet to the fire. but the solution to that is not to abandon the field to the Republican and Democratic party establishment (which is what you do when you go third party), it's to invade the Republican primary process and
force a change by replacing those unfaithful.
Sorry I vote for my principals and no bull**** guilt trip from you or anyone else will change it.
:shrug: if you are morally incapable of voting for Less Bad then that's fine; it's up to you and it's a free country. i simply expect you to accept that the results of your actions are to push America
further away from where you want her to be.
Majority of conservatives and Republicans dont want a constitutional government they want a smaller statist government when compared to democrats and liberals.
so, given that a smaller statist government and a larger statist government are your two
actual options, which one do you prefer?
also consider that when you create a new reality in policy, you create a new center for the debate. when you reduce the size and scope of government (even if it remains statist in nature), you create the grounds for a new debate in which one side pulls it larger and the other pulls it even
smaller. you can achieve your goal through gradualism.
and the same system works for democrats. consider social security, which is certainly intrustive, statist in nature, a moral hazard, threatning to bankrupt the nation, and in violation of the Constitution as the Founders envisioned that document. but is anyone in either major party calling for its repeal? no, the debate has moved on to how and in what direction to tweak it. the Democrats created a fact on the ground, and fundamentally shifted the debate. which is what they are attempting to do with Obamacare, and it's what happens when they are put into power because people vote for conservative third parties. so the question becomes whether you want public policy slowly shifting
in your direction, or
away from it.
Thankfully I dont live my life to appease others. I could care less if someone thinks Im small minded, you dont like my opinions and posts put me on ignore.
i have full respect for libertarians; i simply think they are incorrect in some areas (most notably foriegn policy). i just also think that your abrasive approach and voting patterns are more likely to
hurt your cause then help it. so the question becomes whether or not you are actually dedicated to that cause, or just enjoy being a contrarian.