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Isn't Florida that state with that stupid (IMHO) stand your ground law?
If a man gets a knock at 1.30am by unknown people who are standing in front of his door, does he not have the stand your ground law on his side when he opens the door with an intent to protect himself? Only to be gunned down by deputies who must have had their guns out to begin with.
Now if they had identified themselves as police officers than yes, this guy would have no reason to go to the door armed, but they didn't do that. So this was not a correct shooting IMHO. This man is the victim of failed police procedures.
Thats not how stand your ground works and no it would not be on his side per the story we have.
Also there is no evidence that the police had their guns drawn, they very well might have though but that doesnt impact the case.
Please list in your opinion the failed police procedures.
The failed police procedure is OBVIOUS. The ONLY "evidence" related to that "door knock" at 1:30AM was a motorcycle parked "near by" possibly driven by a murder suspect. Police should EXPECT residents to be "on guard", after all at least one murder suspect is among them, they are likely asleep and NO emergency exists to warrant waking them all. The police decide to knock on ONE door, the resident was armed, so they ASSUMED it to be the suspect and executed him. They later claimed to have annouced themselves, once that was contradicted by witness(es) then they "corrected" ONLY THAT PART of their "official" statement. The ONLY evidence that the resident "pointed his weapon" was made by the very officer that executed him, assuring that the "official" version can not be disputed. All seem willing to brush off the CHANGE in the police statement that they made KNOWN the fact that they were LEO, yet that the gun was pointed at them is TRUE simply by the SAME officer's statement THAT WAS SHOWN TO BE A LIE about the initial LEO announcement "detail".
Thats not how stand your ground works and no it would not be on his side per the story we have.
Also there is no evidence that the police had their guns drawn, they very well might have though but that doesnt impact the case.
Please list in your opinion the failed police procedures.
So, the cops go to someones door in the middle of the night, knock on a door without identifying themselves as police officers, they do not have their weapons drawn and the man who lives there opens the door with an intent to defend himself if he needs to and the police officers then have to draw their weapons and shoot the man? I am sorry but I think that is hard to believe, how hard would it be to shout "police officers PUT YOUR WEAPON DOWN" while drawing their guns?
It would have saved this persons life. But I think they had their guns drawn or in their hands.
Failed police procedures? Check the address out before knocking on a persons door in the middle of the night. Identify yourself as a police officer if you knock on a door in the middle of the night.
The failed police procedure is OBVIOUS. The ONLY "evidence" related to that "door knock" at 1:30AM was a motorcycle parked "near by" possibly driven by a murder suspect. Police should EXPECT residents to be "on guard", after all at least one murder suspect is among them, they are likely asleep and NO emergency exists to warrant waking them all. The police decide to knock on ONE door, the resident was armed, so they ASSUMED it to be the suspect and executed him. They later claimed to have annouced themselves, once that was contradicted by witness(es) then they "corrected" ONLY THAT PART of their "official" statement. The ONLY evidence that the resident "pointed his weapon" was made by the very officer that executed him, assuring that the "official" version can not be disputed. All seem willing to brush off the CHANGE in the police statement that they made KNOWN the fact that they were LEO, yet that the gun was pointed at them is TRUE simply by the SAME officer's statement THAT WAS SHOWN TO BE A LIE about the initial LEO announcement "detail".
You say it is obvious but fail to piont out how the police failed to follow a procedure. Are you able to do that?
To recap what we know.
The police did their job by following up on a potential lead. While following up they followed procedure. A man attempted to murder the cops and he was shot because of it. Where is the problem?
So, the cops go to someones door in the middle of the night, knock on a door without identifying themselves as police officers, they do not have their weapons drawn and the man who lives there opens the door with an intent to defend himself if he needs to and the police officers then have to draw their weapons and shoot the man? I am sorry but I think that is hard to believe, how hard would it be to shout "police officers PUT YOUR WEAPON DOWN" while drawing their guns?
It would have saved this persons life. But I think they had their guns drawn or in their hands.
Failed police procedures? Check the address out before knocking on a persons door in the middle of the night. Identify yourself as a police officer if you knock on a door in the middle of the night.
we don't know what their procedure is yet.....and words like murder or execute are overly harsh words whether you are applying them to the cops or the victim. the "potential lead" could have been checked out in daylight....
we don't know what their procedure is yet.....and words like murder or execute are overly harsh words whether you are applying them to the cops or the victim. the "potential lead" could have been checked out in daylight....
I hope they are charged with murder.
No private citizen has the right to shoot someone in these conditions. I could care less about 'policies'.
When they have more rights than us, you are not free. You are a subject.
You say it is obvious but fail to piont out how the police failed to follow a procedure. Are you able to do that?
To recap what we know.
The police did their job by following up on a potential lead. While following up they followed procedure. A man attempted to murder the cops and he was shot because of it. Where is the problem?
I do not know of the police broke the local police procedures, I do not know enough about the local police laws. I am of the opinion that it is a problem with the police rules in general when in a country that is flooded with weapons, police officers do not identify themselves when knocking on a civilians house at unusual times of day. Times of day when inhabitants of a house have no reasonable expectation of visitors of passersby to call upon their house.
I have seen police shows where cops go towards a car who didn't put their blinker on when turning left or right with a drawn gun or their hands on the gun. I do not have an issue with police officers approaching a home of a known suspect with guns drawn or hands on the guns, but police officers who come to your door in the middle of the night should/have to announce themselves.
The man thought he was protecting his home from persons unknown, if they had announced themselves he would most likely never have had his gun out.
It is tragic and this dead could have been avoided with different police procedures IMHO.
See now this is a reasonable post because its simple saying an OPINION and not pushing it as fact and then also giving support for the opinion. good post.
I disagree with some of it, i don't think its necessary for the police to announce themselves no matter the time for a couple reasons.
on the police side
- One the cops have to look out for their safety too, dont want someone shooting at the door as soon as they say police
- Their job is to catch the perp, dont want him running out the back, hiding or destroying evidence.
on the home owners side
- IMO it totally unreasonable to answer your door without looking to see who it is, or asking who it is
- also its beyond stupid IMO to answer the door with pointing a gun at whoever is on the other side
where else I dsagree is we dont know what the man thought he was doing, he may have thought he was protecting himself, I think thats a solid guess but that still doesnt make it right for him to POINT the gun at anybody for no real reason.
Where I agree is that maybe this guy wouldnt have got himself shot with different procedures but that in no way means Im in favor of them or think different procedures are needed.
Cops do unannounced door knocks all the time and at whatever time is needed, that is not abnormal or unreasonable, what is abnormal and unreasonable is being greeted by a gun pointed at you. :shrug:
and of course my feelings are based on if this story is actually true.
Im not in favor of extra procedures to protect the stupid and hinder the cops at the same time.
What? There was but ONE murder, to assert that the killer, now the only living witness is excused because he THOUGHT himself to be in danger as he SEES a gun inside an address, chosen at random, at 1:30AM that he decides is a POSSIBLE location of a murder suspect. What else do you expect ANY person would do after killing someone? Did you expect that an officer that would LIE about announcing himself as an LEO would not also lie to say the shoot was justified?
When a "suspect" vehicle is identified is it not FAR easier, and safer to the public, to simply observe it and arrest the known SUSPECT when he later approcahes it, rather than bang on doors until you MAYBE find him? If having a gun in your home is now justification to be executed by police then we are in trouble. When unknown people are making noise at your front door, the LAST thing on your mind is that a murder suspect may have parked near by and that the police want to question YOU about it at 1:30AM. I do not doubt that the resident had a gun or that he may have had it in hand as he opened the door, yet it is VERY unlikely that it was pointed at the officer.
You are doing nothing but making factless jumps to conclusions and showing your lack of understanding of police procedure.
it remains and AVOIDABLE death....both sides made mistakes, no doubt....
and only the deputies know the truth...
Everyone has the right to self defense. Why shouldnt cops?
They were not defending themselves.
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