Fear and Loathing of Christians and Mike Pence

[LowDown]

I'm not sure how we got to the state of affairs where Christians are regarded with revulsion and fear by some of their fellow Americans. I suppose it was just because Christians will unashamedly tell people that there are some things that they should not do. That in and of itself, the unabashed judgmental attitude, is what has some people apoplexic about Christians, and the more serious the Christian is about his or her beliefs the worse it is. The idea that some people are informed by a moral code that will not just let them do whatever they feel like doing -- it's just anathema to these guys.

Some of the things being said about Mike Pence illustrate this. The usual suspects accuse him of saying that Jesus talks to him. I've been unable to uncover any credible evidence that this is true. Instead, his relationship with God seems to be standard, run of the mill Christian.

Pence is pro life. He's against same sex marriage. Pretty standard stuff. And yet he is regarded as some sort of monster.

I'm sure this bothers many Christians, but it should not surprise them. It says right there in the Bible that Christians' beliefs would be regarded as foolish by non-believers.

As Democrats have fallen in the polls this has gotten more shrill, as when Joy Behar recently claimed that Christianity = Mental Illness, or words to that effect, with regard to Pence.

Whatever. It all works to Trump's advantage.

 

[Yes_Minister]

I'm not sure how we got to the state of affairs where Christians are regarded with revulsion and fear by some of their fellow Americans. I suppose it was just because Christians will unashamedly tell people that there are some things that they should not do. That in and of itself, the unabashed judgmental attitude, is what has some people apoplexic about Christians, and the more serious the Christian is about his or her beliefs the worse it is. The idea that some people are informed by a moral code that will not just let them do whatever they feel like doing -- it's just anathema to these guys.

Some of the things being said about Mike Pence illustrate this. The usual suspects accuse him of saying that Jesus talks to him. I've been unable to uncover any credible evidence that this is true. Instead, his relationship with God seems to be standard, run of the mill Christian.

Pence is pro life. He's against same sex marriage. Pretty standard stuff. And yet he is regarded as some sort of monster.

I'm sure this bothers many Christians, but it should not surprise them. It says right there in the Bible that Christians' beliefs would be regarded as foolish by non-believers.

As Democrats have fallen in the polls this has gotten more shrill, as when Joy Behar recently claimed that Christianity = Mental Illness, or words to that effect, with regard to Pence.

Whatever. It all works to Trump's advantage.

Pence worships Mammon, not Jesus. Pence is part of the same religious right that tries to turn Christianity into a parody of itself, replacing Jesus's words with their own desire for wealth and power, its fundamentally corrupt movement and I see no reason to respect it.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/the-gospel-of-self/

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...fans-preach-gospel-greed-not-grace-ncna811046

Joel Osteen defends decision not to open Houston church | Daily Mail Online


https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/creflo-dollar-jet-feat/index.html

Pence is against same sex marriage and abortion, because that is easy for him, it asks things of others and nothing of himself. But giving up his wealth and power to follow Jesus, he would never do that. Pence is part of the Christian greed movement and its a corruption of Christianity. The religious right demands we be in awe of a man who looks like the living embodiment of the 7 deadly sins, they have no moral authority, IMO. Say what you will about the Pope, he does not ignore parts of bible in favor of greed:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/europe/vatican-us-catholic-conservatives.html

 

[independentusa]

I'm not sure how we got to the state of affairs where Christians are regarded with revulsion and fear by some of their fellow Americans. I suppose it was just because Christians will unashamedly tell people that there are some things that they should not do. That in and of itself, the unabashed judgmental attitude, is what has some people apoplexic about Christians, and the more serious the Christian is about his or her beliefs the worse it is. The idea that some people are informed by a moral code that will not just let them do whatever they feel like doing -- it's just anathema to these guys.

Some of the things being said about Mike Pence illustrate this. The usual suspects accuse him of saying that Jesus talks to him. I've been unable to uncover any credible evidence that this is true. Instead, his relationship with God seems to be standard, run of the mill Christian.

Pence is pro life. He's against same sex marriage. Pretty standard stuff. And yet he is regarded as some sort of monster.

I'm sure this bothers many Christians, but it should not surprise them. It says right there in the Bible that Christians' beliefs would be regarded as foolish by non-believers.

As Democrats have fallen in the polls this has gotten more shrill, as when Joy Behar recently claimed that Christianity = Mental Illness, or words to that effect, with regard to Pence.

Whatever. It all works to Trump's advantage.

It is more about that many of the so called Christians, don't do as Christ said to live their lives. Hypocrisy, your name is evangelical christian.

 

[Praxas]

I'm not sure how we got to the state of affairs where Christians are regarded with revulsion and fear by some of their fellow Americans. I suppose it was just because Christians will unashamedly tell people that there are some things that they should not do. That in and of itself, the unabashed judgmental attitude, is what has some people apoplexic about Christians, and the more serious the Christian is about his or her beliefs the worse it is. The idea that some people are informed by a moral code that will not just let them do whatever they feel like doing -- it's just anathema to these guys.

Awwww, are Christians getting their wittle feeeeewwwings hurt? Yeah, I don't know WHY they would getting any flak from decades of calling gay people abominations, actively working to make gay marriage stay illegal, telling women what they can or can't do with their bodies and wanting to force religion down people's throats.

You know what Lowdown, cry me a river.

Pence is pro life. He's against same sex marriage. Pretty standard stuff. And yet he is regarded as some sort of monster.

Actively seeking to punish gay people for their sexuality and telling women what they can or cannot do with their OWN bodies, is being a monster. Again, go cry me a river.

I'm sure this bothers many Christians, but it should not surprise them. It says right there in the Bible that Christians' beliefs would be regarded as foolish by non-believers.

Demanding that we follow the rules of your sky fairy IS foolish.

As Democrats have fallen in the polls this has gotten more shrill, as when Joy Behar recently claimed that Christianity = Mental Illness, or words to that effect, with regard to Pence.

Whatever. It all works to Trump's advantage.

Yeah, that's why gay marriage has been legalized, because the Dems are losing. :roll: Again, go cry me a river.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Fools and their money buy these nice gifts...

https://thewordonthewordoffaithinfo...teens-10-5-million-dollar-river-oaks-mansion/

 

[WillyPete]

I'm not sure how we got to the state of affairs where Christians are regarded with revulsion and fear by some of their fellow Americans. I suppose it was just because Christians will unashamedly tell people that there are some things that they should not do. That in and of itself, the unabashed judgmental attitude, is what has some people apoplexic about Christians, and the more serious the Christian is about his or her beliefs the worse it is. The idea that some people are informed by a moral code that will not just let them do whatever they feel like doing -- it's just anathema to these guys.

Seems like you're on top of it.

People don't like being told what to do, and the church has a history of thinking and behaving as though they run the show. I wouldn't call the reaction revulsion or fear, though. More like eye-rolling annoyance at yet another marketing come-on in an endless parade of same from every possible source, simultaneously, around the clock.

I think the big change in recent decades is that a person no longer has a public identity that they care about. It used to be many people didn't engage in vice, get divorced, or dare not to attend church, to avoid the related public shame. That's really not a factor anymore, and "servicing" shame is the church's main business. Even social media shaming is pretty low key, compared to the fire and brimstone of prior generations.

I'm not completely sure what triggered it, but my best guess is television, maybe it even started with radio. We don't need to entertain each other any more, so we don't care as much what others think of us.

For the church's part, trying to be all things to all people is also a turn-off. To paraphrase Groucho Marx, I'd never join a church that would have me as a member.
It seems amazing and yet entirely predictable that churches aren't more vocal about gay marriage, transgender issues, or any of the other social changes we've seen in recent decades.

Then again, maybe they have been. I wouldn't know where or under what circumstances I'd listen to their pitch.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

...and Trump's own pet moneyvagelists, the Copelands:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterj...-mansion-you-saw-on-john-oliver/#75e324571d69

Interesting tax break, eh? Don't you wish you could collect money in Jesus' name and make out like that?

I'm not a Christian, but my morals wouldn't let me scam like these folks. Go figure.:roll:

 

[OlNate]

I'm not sure how we got to the state of affairs where Christians are regarded with revulsion and fear by some of their fellow Americans. I suppose it was just because Christians will unashamedly tell people that there are some things that they should not do. That in and of itself, the unabashed judgmental attitude, is what has some people apoplexic about Christians, and the more serious the Christian is about his or her beliefs the worse it is. The idea that some people are informed by a moral code that will not just let them do whatever they feel like doing -- it's just anathema to these guys.

Some of the things being said about Mike Pence illustrate this. The usual suspects accuse him of saying that Jesus talks to him. I've been unable to uncover any credible evidence that this is true. Instead, his relationship with God seems to be standard, run of the mill Christian.

Pence is pro life. He's against same sex marriage. Pretty standard stuff. And yet he is regarded as some sort of monster.

I'm sure this bothers many Christians, but it should not surprise them. It says right there in the Bible that Christians' beliefs would be regarded as foolish by non-believers.

As Democrats have fallen in the polls this has gotten more shrill, as when Joy Behar recently claimed that Christianity = Mental Illness, or words to that effect, with regard to Pence.

Whatever. It all works to Trump's advantage.

Hey, Low? Don't ever assume to talk on behalf of all Christians, and don't put your sad and hateful "norms" out as what all Christians believe. If hard right conservative Christians hadn't weaponized Christianity in order to secure power and privilege, and stuck to the original / intended message, we wouldn't be so hated. Stop blaming others.

 

[LowDown]

Hey, Low? Don't ever assume to talk on behalf of all Christians, and don't put your sad and hateful "norms" out as what all Christians believe. If hard right conservative Christians hadn't weaponized Christianity in order to secure power and privilege, and stuck to the original / intended message, we wouldn't be so hated. Stop blaming others.

So where was it, exactly, that I claimed to speak for all Christians?

What do you mean about "weaponizing Christianisty"? Is that where Christians talk about right and wrong?

 

[WillyPete]

Pence worships Mammon, not Jesus. Pence is part of the same religious right that tries to turn Christianity into a parody of itself, replacing Jesus's words with their own desire for wealth and power, its fundamentally corrupt movement and I see no reason to respect it.

It is more about that many of the so called Christians, don't do as Christ said to live their lives. Hypocrisy, your name is evangelical christian.

Hey, Low? Don't ever assume to talk on behalf of all Christians, and don't put your sad and hateful "norms" out as what all Christians believe. If hard right conservative Christians hadn't weaponized Christianity in order to secure power and privilege, and stuck to the original / intended message, we wouldn't be so hated. Stop blaming others.

This No True Scotsman **** doesn't help either.

Got a Christianity for everything these days, to the point the term is meaningless.

 

[LowDown]

Awwww, are Christians getting their wittle feeeeewwwings hurt? Yeah, I don't know WHY they would getting any flak from decades of calling gay people abominations, actively working to make gay marriage stay illegal, telling women what they can or can't do with their bodies and wanting to force religion down people's throats.

You know what Lowdown, cry me a river.



Actively seeking to punish gay people for their sexuality and telling women what they can or cannot do with their OWN bodies, is being a monster. Again, go cry me a river.



Demanding that we follow the rules of your sky fairy IS foolish.



Yeah, that's why gay marriage has been legalized, because the Dems are losing. :roll: Again, go cry me a river.

So it comes down to whose morality gets codified in the law. You're afraid that Christians will manage to get their morality so codified. You want to shove your own morality down the throats of the people.

It think whose morality prevails is something that's to be decided through the democratic process.

 

[LowDown]

It is more about that many of the so called Christians, don't do as Christ said to live their lives. Hypocrisy, your name is evangelical christian.

If you want to know what Christians think then ask one. It's not what you think.

 

[OlNate]

So where was it, exactly, that I claimed to speak for all Christians?

What do you mean about "weaponizing Christianisty"? Is that where Christians talk about right and wrong?

Ya, it is. We are told not to judge. Multiple times. Moreover, we are clearly told that our sphere of influence extends only to ourselves.

You want to get into a religious discussion with me, Low? Because I see how you represent here, the positions you hold, and those are all fine for an individual, and your prerogative...I support everyone's right to be either the angel or asshole that they are. But, if you're going to call yourself a Christian in the process, then brother, I don't recognize any of that in you. At all. Pharisee, perhaps...but not a Christian.

 

[LowDown]

Pence worships Mammon, not Jesus. Pence is part of the same religious right that tries to turn Christianity into a parody of itself, replacing Jesus's words with their own desire for wealth and power, its fundamentally corrupt movement and I see no reason to respect it.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/the-gospel-of-self/

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opini...fans-preach-gospel-greed-not-grace-ncna811046

Joel Osteen defends decision not to open Houston church | Daily Mail Online


https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/13/living/creflo-dollar-jet-feat/index.html

Pence is against same sex marriage and abortion, because that is easy for him, it asks things of others and nothing of himself. But giving up his wealth and power to follow Jesus, he would never do that. Pence is part of the Christian greed movement and its a corruption of Christianity. The religious right demands we be in awe of a man who looks like the living embodiment of the 7 deadly sins, they have no moral authority, IMO. Say what you will about the Pope, he does not ignore parts of bible in favor of greed:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/world/europe/vatican-us-catholic-conservatives.html

Christians often don't live up to the ideas you think that they ought to. But that's to be expected. If some day you believe you will have a more realistic idea of what can be expected. Until then don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Christians do things wrong sometimes, but they also do a lot of things right.

 

[LowDown]

Ya, it is. We are told not to judge. Multiple times. Moreover, we are clearly told that our sphere of influence extends only to ourselves.

You want to get into a religious discussion with me, Low? Because I see how you represent here, the positions you hold, and those are all fine for an individual, and your prerogative...I support everyone's right to be either the angel or asshole that they are. But, if you're going to call yourself a Christian in the process, then brother, I don't recognize any of that in you. At all. Pharisee, perhaps...but not a Christian.

Um, what was that you were just saying about not judging?

 

[Praxas]

So it comes down to whose morality gets codified in the law. You're afraid that Christians will manage to get their morality so codified. You want to shove your own morality down the throats of the people.

I'm not forcing you to marry someone of the same sex and I'm not forcing you to have an abortion, so I fail to see how giving someone ELSE a choice is forcing morality down YOUR throat. Try again.

It think whose morality prevails is something that's to be decided through the democratic process.

So if the Democratic process decides that a LEGAL marriage should be two men or two women together and that's it, you would be just dandy with it huh? If the Democratic process decides Christians should be executed, that's ok with you as well right? I mean it's the Democratic process and all.

 

[AlbqOwl]

I'm not sure how we got to the state of affairs where Christians are regarded with revulsion and fear by some of their fellow Americans. I suppose it was just because Christians will unashamedly tell people that there are some things that they should not do. That in and of itself, the unabashed judgmental attitude, is what has some people apoplexic about Christians, and the more serious the Christian is about his or her beliefs the worse it is. The idea that some people are informed by a moral code that will not just let them do whatever they feel like doing -- it's just anathema to these guys.

Some of the things being said about Mike Pence illustrate this. The usual suspects accuse him of saying that Jesus talks to him. I've been unable to uncover any credible evidence that this is true. Instead, his relationship with God seems to be standard, run of the mill Christian.

Pence is pro life. He's against same sex marriage. Pretty standard stuff. And yet he is regarded as some sort of monster.

I'm sure this bothers many Christians, but it should not surprise them. It says right there in the Bible that Christians' beliefs would be regarded as foolish by non-believers.

As Democrats have fallen in the polls this has gotten more shrill, as when Joy Behar recently claimed that Christianity = Mental Illness, or words to that effect, with regard to Pence.

Whatever. It all works to Trump's advantage.

I'm wondering if Omarosa's comments on Celebrity Big Brother inspired this thread? While it has been dismaying to many of us that they are politicizing one of our favorite shows, some of her comments have been pretty funny. And I think likely politically motivated for her own benefit as she wouldn't want to be 'tainted' by her tenure with the Administration with people who are likely mostly left of center.

What does she really think about Mike Pence? Who knows?

But in the grand scheme of things, most Presidents have something about them that could raise eyebrows.

John Quincy Adams was said to occasionally go skinny dipping in the Potomac. Andrew Jackson liked to duel. John Tyler was so hated as President that Lincoln didn't issue a proclamation of mourning or order flags flown at half mast when Tyler died. History records Franklin Pierce as getting drunk and running over an old lady with his horse. Buchanan was likely our first gay President remaining a bachelor but living with a male senator for more than 10 years. Andrew Johnson made all his own suits himself, even when he was President. Grover Cleveland was made legal guardian of a friend's 11-year-old daughter and 10 years later, while he was President, married her. (Imagine what the press would do with that one now.) William Henry Harrison was so afraid of electrocution that he wouldn't touch light switches or chains. FDR was highly superstitious and refused to have 13 people, object, anything associated with him. One of Jimmy Carter's more famous lines: “I’ve looked on a lot of women with lust. I’ve committed adultery in my heart many times. This is something that God recognizes I will do—and I have done it—and God forgives me for it.” Ronald and Nancy Reagan consulted astrologers a lot during his presidency. W was head cheerleader at his high school. Barack Obama was turned down when he applied to be in the 'black pin-up calendar' at Harvard. (I bet those who turned him down regret that now.)

So if Jesus talks to Mike Pence, I think we can live with that.

 

[Yes_Minister]

Christians often don't live up to the ideas you think that they ought to. But that's to be expected. If some day you believe you will have a more realistic idea of what can be expected. Until then don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Christians do things wrong sometimes, but they also do a lot of things right.

The Religious Right wallows in sin, greed and corruption and then has the gall to tell others how to live their lives. Yeah, no thanks.

Mother Teresa opposed gay marriage and abortion, but she also spent her life helping the poor in India. What has Pence done that compares to that? Nothing, he is just another jerk who uses religion to justify his greed.

 

[OlNate]

Um, what was that you were just saying about not judging?

Oh, we're allowed to reproach those who claim the same faith but fall short...that's in there. It's almost like God knew people were going to use him to their advantage. The Bible's an amazing document, isn't it?

 

[independentusa]

If you want to know what Christians think then ask one. It's not what you think.

I am a Catholic, so many protestants don't consider me a Christian, but I do know how Christ told us to live our lives and many of the so called evangelical christians don't evEn come close. They seem to be more about making money and disparaging the poor. And the idea that they can forgive Trump everything he has done and is doing in his life is certainly not what Jesus was telling us.

 

[OlNate]

I am a Catholic, so many protestants don't consider me a Christian, but I do know how Christ told us to live our lives and many of the so called evangelical christians don't evEn come close. They seem to be more about making money and disparaging the poor. And the idea that they can forgive Trump everything he has done and is doing in his life is certainly not what Jesus was telling us.

LowDown has decided he want to come at it from a pulpit apparently...I'm guessing we won't see that approach again.

By the way, I'm Lutheran...happy Year of Reconciliation.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I find it interesting in a country in which 75% of the population identifies as being christian, where in nearly all (a small % of exceptions) elected officials have to proclaim being christian) that so many christians proclaim persecution by society

 

[Lursa]

I'm not sure how we got to the state of affairs where Christians are regarded with revulsion and fear by some of their fellow Americans. I suppose it was just because Christians will unashamedly tell people that there are some things that they should not do. That in and of itself, the unabashed judgmental attitude, is what has some people apoplexic about Christians, and the more serious the Christian is about his or her beliefs the worse it is. The idea that some people are informed by a moral code that will not just let them do whatever they feel like doing -- it's just anathema to these guys.

Some of the things being said about Mike Pence illustrate this. The usual suspects accuse him of saying that Jesus talks to him. I've been unable to uncover any credible evidence that this is true. Instead, his relationship with God seems to be standard, run of the mill Christian.

Pence is pro life. He's against same sex marriage. Pretty standard stuff. And yet he is regarded as some sort of monster.

I'm sure this bothers many Christians, but it should not surprise them. It says right there in the Bible that Christians' beliefs would be regarded as foolish by non-believers.

As Democrats have fallen in the polls this has gotten more shrill, as when Joy Behar recently claimed that Christianity = Mental Illness, or words to that effect, with regard to Pence.

Whatever. It all works to Trump's advantage.

It's hard to respect base ignorance, intolerance, and disrespect.

 

[Fearandloathing]

It is more about that many of the so called Christians, don't do as Christ said to live their lives. Hypocrisy, your name is evangelical christian.

I have been pursuing the teachings of a humble carpenter for nearly 30 years. I have looked in churches, he is not there. In place of him are judgemental snobs, self centered righteous and all the kinds of people Jesus said he DIDN'T want and none of the humble.

If one is following the teachings of Jesus there is one concept that should scream in your face...we are NOT allowed to judge others..."forgive us our trespasses AS WE forgive those who have trespassed against us" His ONLY prayer.

I never cut my hair anymore, sometimes I care enough to put it in a pony tail. From March to October I wear shorts and have a full white beard beard because I spent a lifetime cutting it and shaving and I refuse to do it anymore. However, that vision in a stranger in a modern North American church is an incident that will feed the chuch's gossip network for months.

There is nothing wrong with God, or His Son, it's the ground crew that's ****ed up.

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Whatever. It all works to Trump's advantage.

Christianity says judge not, turn the other cheek, bless those who curse you and love your enemy. The Christian right has abandoned all of that. It's no longer Christianity.

Jesus' main enemy in the Gospels are the Pharisees--who were very religious people. The Pharisees were judgmental, self-righteous and hypocritical. That perfectly describes the Christian Right.

Have you ever considered that your leaders are Pharisees? I hope you sincerely pray about this and see how they have strayed from the Truth.