Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry' [W:245]

CRUE CAB · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

j-mac said:
So what do we do, arm our 13 year olds with razor knives? Nah....

I and most of my class mates had knives.
We all carried Buck knives when we were teens. And guess what, nothing like this ever happend. There were fights, but it was one on one and no one was in danger of broken bones and having the life stomped out of them.

j-mac · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

CRUE CAB said:
The "professionals" have had a couple of generations to do whatever they can. This is what they came up with.
Entitlement society that has no consequences for bad behaviour.
Until we start jailing for long periods, these type people will not get the message.
Things like this happen, and instead of using them as teaching moments to our society. We blow it off, we cowar in fear of what really needs to happen with these people.
We are not talking about a school yard fight, or some bullying. You cant tell me you saw the video and not thought you saw three people trying to kill someone.
This site is all about "what ifs". So, what if the 13 year old was your boy?
Would you want the system to fail him and pat the perps on the back side and tell them not to do it again?

No, and that is not what I am saying here. I think that anyone you ask on this board will tell you that of the posters in here I am probably closer to your thinking on this than apart from it. All I am saying is that we can't have a system that takes first offense 15 year olds, and throws away the key. Is it a problem in the culture that certain segments of our society glorifies this sort of act? Hell yes. But I think that we need to approach each incident individually. Hell, it could be that these three need to be in adult lock up for 5 years. But, I don't know yet.

We have to be careful in this society not to go overboard as well....If you ask me, I want to know what happened that let these three know that this boy was the one who went to the school administration about them? And why the school administrator thought it was a good idea to put him on that bus with the three he just informed on.

j-mac · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

CRUE CAB said:
I and most of my class mates had knives.
We all carried Buck knives when we were teens. And guess what, nothing like this ever happend. There were fights, but it was one on one and no one was in danger of broken bones and having the life stomped out of them.

Some schools in this country are dangerous enough without arming the students. I don't know what country setting you went to school in, and at what period of time you attended, but I went to primary school in the late 70s and even then, with the advent of bussing, we had police presence, and toward the end, metal detectors at the front doors...

Woodman909 · Aug 16, 2013

j-mac said:
School bus beating suspects appear in court | Fox News Video

You have GOT to be kidding here? The father saying "I'm sorry for what happened to the victim, but that's just the way it is?" What the hell is that?

Sorry, but these kids, all three of them should be charged as adults, and serve time.

What say you?

Stake them to the ground, pour honey on them and let the red ants loose.

j-mac · Aug 16, 2013

Woodman909 said:
Stake them to the ground, pour honey on them and let the red ants loose.

I didn't say that, or anything close. At the OP I was outraged in the vicious beating of that 13 year old for doing what society drums into him from early childhood what he should do, then to have not only the school, but the bus driver stand by and NOT render aid during the attack. In the course of the thread I have couched my early statement opening this thread, but make no mistake, your attempt to come in here and mischaracterize my views on this case are noted, and anything but welcome. You should take the time and read the thread before posting, not just the first post and then lash out, it makes you look uninformed.

Woodman909 · Aug 16, 2013

j-mac said:
I didn't say that, or anything close. At the OP I was outraged in the vicious beating of that 13 year old for doing what society drums into him from early childhood what he should do, then to have not only the school, but the bus driver stand by and NOT render aid during the attack. In the course of the thread I have couched my early statement opening this thread, but make no mistake, your attempt to come in here and mischaracterize my views on this case are noted, and anything but welcome. You should take the time and read the thread before posting, not just the first post and then lash out, it makes you look uninformed.

I have read the post, and I have reviewed the thread in it's entirety. My statement does not mischaracterize your views one iota. I DID NOT SAY YOU SAID ANYTHING. My post still stands in what I feel would be a just punishment, for the perpetrators, their parents and possible the bus driver as well. Saying 'Sorry' does not cut it. This type of behavior is what we get for allowing the family unit to disintegrate. You can bet their friends think they are heroes.

j-mac · Aug 16, 2013

Woodman909 said:
I have read the post, and I have reviewed the thread in it's entirety. My statement does not mischaracterize your views one iota. I DID NOT SAY YOU SAID ANYTHING. My post still stands in what I feel would be a just punishment, for the perpetrators, their parents and possible the bus driver as well. Saying 'Sorry' does not cut it. This type of behavior is what we get for allowing the family unit to disintegrate. You can bet their friends think they are heroes.

So then we are in agreement for the most part.

Woodman909 · Aug 16, 2013

j-mac said:
So then we are in agreement for the most part.

Yes. Perhaps my form of punishment does not suit your position, but they should be tried as adults yes no doubt. Perhaps they should be beaten as they did the victim, but of course that would be cruel and inhumane. An eye for an eye is my position.

j-mac · Aug 16, 2013

Woodman909 said:
Yes. Perhaps my form of punishment does not suit your position, but they should be tried as adults yes no doubt. Perhaps they should be beaten as they did the victim, but of course that would be cruel and inhumane. An eye for an eye is my position.

Ok, got it...Sorry for the mix up....

CRUE CAB · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

j-mac said:
Some schools in this country are dangerous enough without arming the students. I don't know what country setting you went to school in, and at what period of time you attended, but I went to primary school in the late 70s and even then, with the advent of bussing, we had police presence, and toward the end, metal detectors at the front doors...

Satellite Beach Florida, not exactly country. Not that that has anything to do with it. I guess the difference is how we were raised and what type of people we were being rasied by.

j-mac · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

CRUE CAB said:
Satellite Beach Florida, not exactly country. Not that that has anything to do with it. I guess the difference is how we were raised and what type of people we were being rasied by.

On that we can agree. I think that there is merit to the upbringing, and family unit these three come from.

CRUE CAB · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

justabubba said:
so wise [/sarcasm for those who need it]
that there are only two possibilities as a such a parent:
1. do nothing and be a defenseless target; or
2. do what your dad taught you and cut the ****er so that he bleeds out

rationality is seldom found in the extremes. probably something your father never taught you and certainly something you have not taught your kids ... no, let's teach them how to bleed out a human. who the hell does that?!!!!!!!!!!

Someone fighting for their lives.

CRUE CAB · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

j-mac said:
No, and that is not what I am saying here. I think that anyone you ask on this board will tell you that of the posters in here I am probably closer to your thinking on this than apart from it. All I am saying is that we can't have a system that takes first offense 15 year olds, and throws away the key. Is it a problem in the culture that certain segments of our society glorifies this sort of act? Hell yes. But I think that we need to approach each incident individually. Hell, it could be that these three need to be in adult lock up for 5 years. But, I don't know yet.

We have to be careful in this society not to go overboard as well....If you ask me, I want to know what happened that let these three know that this boy was the one who went to the school administration about them? And why the school administrator thought it was a good idea to put him on that bus with the three he just informed on.

First offence? Probably not, just first time caught.

j-mac · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

CRUE CAB said:
First offence? Probably not, just first time caught.

Probably, but are we supposed to start assuming now? What can we assume about you? If you truly believe in innocent until proven guilty, then you have to not take that route.

disneydude · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

AliHajiSheik said:
And then at age 18, something magical happens: voila! Adulthood.

Yep....I've always thought that is kinda silly myself...but that is the way our society is...and unless you want to be hypocritical about it, you either stay consistent with our societal beliefs or you change them across the board. I have always found it incredibly strange that at 18 a person is mature enough to make a reasonable decision to join the military and perhaps die for our country, but we believe that people aren't mature enough to make responsible decisions about drinking alcohol or gambling.

disneydude · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

CRUE CAB said:
3 on 1 is a deadly attack. And my child is not going down with out doing substantial damage.
I showed my sons where to cut someone to bleed them out. It may take a few minutes, but someone with a cut femoral artery is probably not going to make it.
Or, would you rather those three just been left alone to kill that boy. And dont say they wouldnt or couldnt. They had already broken his arm and were continuing the attack while the worthless bus driver was yelling at them and the other worthless students just sat there like nothing was happening.

Hopefully your children will never have to use it...and if they do, hopefully they make the wise decision to do so in an appropriate situation. Using deadly force in non-lethal situations has lead many people to lengthy prison sentences. I know....I see it quite often in my line of work.

disneydude · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

Captain America said:
Same argument I heard back in the nam days about drinking. "If I'm old enough to fight and die for my country, shouldn't I be old enough to buy a beer?"

I think we all know, and pretty much agree, that punishment for breaking the law should vary depending on many factors, age being one of them. The problem here is, we have 15 year olds, old enough in more serious cases, to be tried as adults, beating the **** out of a 13 year old, who hasn't even started to grow hair on his balls yet.

Now, if the 15 year olds were adult, it would be a second degree felony and rack them up some big years in the big house. No one is suggesting that. But this, "Bad boy! Don't you do this again for nine months or we MIGHT put you in jail," simply is not enough.

Then again, if the 13 year old were my son who was jumped and pummeled, I would be wanting these punk ass pieces of **** to get their head's torn off so I could defecate down their neck. Then I would file the max civil charges I could on the parents.

But if it was my 15 year old "child," doing the "naughty deeds," I would be wanting all the mercy the court could sling his way.

But none of these kids are mine. So I'm going to side on behalf of the 13 year old and wish that the 15 year old's get sent to preparatory prison (a.k.a. juvenile detention,) until they are 18 years old. That's the education these young men need. Because I have a feeling, given their parenting and court coddling, that's where they are headed.

But the prosecution only wants 9 months probation. It doesn't matter what we think.

I agree with much of what you write. My only contention is that the juvenile system is set up to deal with this. Trying children as "adults" is silly. They could have received hefty youth prison sentences in this case. I'm surprized by the 9 month probation sentence which leads me to believe that there is more to this than we are hearing. I can guarantee that in Los Angeles, they would have received a 1 year boot camp at a minimum and possibly would have been sent to the CYA (California Youth Authority), I know....I worked in the juvenile court for about 5 years and handled hundreds of juvenile cases. This isn't a probation case, unless there is more to it.

CRUE CAB · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

disneydude said:
Hopefully your children will never have to use it...and if they do, hopefully they make the wise decision to do so in an appropriate situation. Using deadly force in non-lethal situations has lead many people to lengthy prison sentences. I know....I see it quite often in my line of work.

I have seen it to, but they know that when all else fails. Do what you have to, to survive. And they knew I had their backs 100%.
Now if they bullied someone, they would have to deal with me after I let the school do whatever it had to to them.
Fights, drama, pushing shoving, disagreements are part of highschool.
What happend on that bus was way far beyond that.

disneydude · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

CRUE CAB said:
I have seen it to, but they know that when all else fails. Do what you have to, to survive. And they knew I had their backs 100%.
Now if they bullied someone, they would have to deal with me after I let the school do whatever it had to to them.
Fights, drama, pushing shoving, disagreements are part of highschool.
What happend on that bus was way far beyond that.

I don't disagree. My only point is that children are different than adults. Unless we as a society are willing to change our entire belief system it is absolutely hypocritical to say that although we recognize that children do not have the same mental capacity and maturity to form rational decisions as adults, we are going to treat them as it they do if they commit a violent offense.
These kids received a way too lenient sentence based on what I know about the case, but they didn't need to be tried in adult court to be dealt with severely and harshly.

Woodman909 · Aug 16, 2013

No need to apologize sir.

Dittohead not! · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

ChrisL said:
But they are not adults. Just what kind of sentencing do you think they should serve? Do you think they should be thrown into adult prisons?

Now, that's a tough one.

They are not adults, and no kids should, IMO, be thrown into adult prisons where they will just learn to be more hardened criminals. On the other hand, this goes way beyond a juvenile prank.

If they were to go into a juvenile hall, then be let out at the age of 18, the odds are very good that they will commit another violent offense. How you rehabilitate a young thug, I'm really not sure.

ChrisL · Aug 16, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

Dittohead not! said:
Now, that's a tough one.

They are not adults, and no kids should, IMO, be thrown into adult prisons where they will just learn to be more hardened criminals. On the other hand, this goes way beyond a juvenile prank.

If they were to go into a juvenile hall, then be let out at the age of 18, the odds are very good that they will commit another violent offense. How you rehabilitate a young thug, I'm really not sure.

Lizzie had posted some good ideas earlier in the thread, having them work with animals being one. I agree with her post. I don't know what to do with the problem of them no longer being a minor once they turn 18. I would say to hold them longer but that would probably not really be possible without changing the age of what we consider to be a minor, or charging them as adults. I think these kids are only 15 at most, so that's 3 years they could serve. It's a complicated issue.

Mason66 · Aug 17, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

ChrisL said:
Lizzie had posted some good ideas earlier in the thread, having them work with animals being one. I agree with her post. I don't know what to do with the problem of them no longer being a minor once they turn 18. I would say to hold them longer but that would probably not really be possible without changing the age of what we consider to be a minor, or charging them as adults. I think these kids are only 15 at most, so that's 3 years they could serve. It's a complicated issue.

If these three didn't have any compassion for another human being, why would you put them with animals that are helpless.

I say keep them as far away from animals as posible.

As was posted earlier, make them work in a hospital so they see the results of their actions, and make them do the dirtiest jobs there.

ChrisL · Aug 17, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

Mason66 said:
If these three didn't have any compassion for another human being, why would you put them with animals that are helpless.

I say keep them as far away from animals as posible.

As was posted earlier, make them work in a hospital so they see the results of their actions, and make them do the dirtiest jobs there.

What makes you think they would be alone with the animals. I'm pretty sure they would be under pretty much constant supervision.

Mason66 · Aug 17, 2013

Re: Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry'

ChrisL said:
What makes you think they would be alone with the animals. I'm pretty sure they would be under pretty much constant supervision.

If it is an understaffed shelter, I am positive they will be left alone with the animals. Places like those don't have enough people to do half the work that is needed so they wouldn't have anybody to babysit these guys doing what they needed to do.

Father of teen charged in Florida school bus beating says son is 'sorry' [W:245]

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