Pentagon bans 60 mm mortar round after deaths.....
HAWTHORNE, Nev. (AP) — A mortar shell explosion killed at least seven Marines and injured several more during mountain warfare training in Nevada's high desert, prompting the Pentagon to immediately halt the use of the weapons until an investigation can determine their safety, officials said Tuesday.
The explosion occurred Monday night at the Hawthorne Army Depot, a sprawling facility used by troops heading overseas, during an exercise involving the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force from Camp Lejeune, N.C. Several Marines from the unit were injured in the blast, authorities said.
The Pentagon expanded a temporary ban to prohibit the military from firing any 60 mm mortar rounds until the results of the investigation. The Marine Corps said Tuesday a "blanket suspension" of 60 mm mortars and associated firing tubes is in effect.
The Pentagon earlier had suspended use of all high-explosive and illumination mortar rounds that were in the same manufacturing lots as ones fired in Nevada.
The mortar has changed little since World War II and remains one of the simplest weapons to operate, which is why it is found at the lowest level of infantry units, said Joseph Trevithick, a mortar expert with Global Security.org.
"Basically, it's still a pipe and it's got a firing pin at the bottom," Trevithick said. Still, a number of things could go wrong, such as a fuse malfunction, a problem with the barrel's assembly, or a round prematurely detonating inside the tube, he said.
The official said it would be normal to warn other U.S. military branches that use 60 mm mortars, such as the Army, about the Marines warning. The moratorium could last for weeks or months.
Pentagon bans 60 mm mortar round after deaths
Looks Like they have Warned the Army too. The Ban is up on them officially.
Morter are safe to handle, I'll bet the round which went off was the 3rd or 4th in a volly. The tube gets hot and will cook off the fuse if fire more than a couple at a time.An explosion during a training exercise at a military ammunition storage facility in western Nevada has killed "several" people, with U.S. Marines among the dead, military officials said Tuesday.
The explosion occurred late Monday night during a Marine training exercise at the Hawthorne Army Depot in western Nevada, said facility manager Russ Collier.
Hawthorne Army Depot is a 147,000-acre site used for the storage and destruction of demilitarized ammunition.....snip~
Seven Marines killed, seven more hurt in Nevada training blast
Reuters – 13 mins ago<<<<< more here.
We lost 7 Marines last night also 7 wounded.. Ammunition Is stored at Hawthorne. Looks Like Heaven was in need of some more Heroes!
And please spare me the ' heaven needed more heros' crap, that's so generic and clishe, a very disrespectfull way for you to react to this.
Yeah, being cliche is disrespectful because it's not genuine. Save it for the Hallmark cards. "Heaven needed more heros"? Seriously? What a bunch of crap. Your post was little better than Harry Reid blaming the accident on the sequestration today.No it wasn't a disrespectful way for me to pay tribute to my Cuzins and honor those that have fallen. You may not like it.....and that's your choice. But don't bring me any of this condescending BS over Military Brethren ever again.
Yeah, being cliche is disrespectful because it's not genuine. Save it for the Hallmark cards. "Heaven needed more heros"? Seriously? What a bunch of crap. Your post was little better than Harry Reid blaming the accident on the sequestration today.
Fact is when you send more than 3-4 rounds down the tube you start risking a cook-off, especially if it's humid. From all we know so far, maybe the rounds were old. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the armory making a big mistake. Maybe the team fired off to many rounds causing a cook-off. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the fire team making a big mistake. Maybe the mortar was defective. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the manufacturer making a big mistake.
Under normal conditions, mortars are safe to handle and use. This isn't divine intervention, this isn't a ray of sunshine from the heavens disrupting the laws of nature and causing a supernatural event. Someone ****ed up. This was completely preventable.
I realize a lot of people want to resort to cliche bull**** because they're trying to cope, but the cold hard truth is this didn't have to happen, these Marines did not have to die, their deaths did not serve the greater good.
My question is 7 dead, 14 wounded. You usually have 3 on a gun, 3-4 guns on a line. So that's 10-15 dudes. A single round getting a hit on all of them and a kill on two gun positions?
1. Someone didn't dig mortar pits and is going to get fired after he gets' back out of the hospital or
2. Multiple round detonation. My thought process here is one round goes down, doesn't fire out, crew doesn't notice in the rapid fire, throws another one down the pipe out of muscle memory, both rounds go off in the tube or
3. everything that could go wrong, did. ridiculous amounts of everything.
One of my bosses is an old mortarman. His theory is that someone was practicing direct lay and anticipated the recoil, throwing a round up.
What's 'jive'?Well you do know what they say about Opinions.....Correct? Seriously get over it and in no way is it anything like what Reid did. I understand your mind can't handle it. But let me know when you want me to make it easy for you. I can speak Jive to! "Sua Sponte" Sticks.
What's 'jive'?
Yes I was, and for the same reason: it's fake bull****.It's kinda like that **** talkin you do.....and weren't you the one that was bitching about people throwing up military tributes too?
Yes I was, and for the same reason: it's fake bull****.
If the round cooked off inside the tube, the fragments from the tube would create more lethality than what the round could create by itself.
Yeah, being cliche is disrespectful because it's not genuine. Save it for the Hallmark cards. "Heaven needed more heros"? Seriously? What a bunch of crap. Your post was little better than Harry Reid blaming the accident on the sequestration today.
Fact is when you send more than 3-4 rounds down the tube you start risking a cook-off, especially if it's humid. From all we know so far, maybe the rounds were old. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the armory making a big mistake. Maybe the team fired off to many rounds causing a cook-off. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the fire team making a big mistake. Maybe the mortar was defective. That's not 'heaven needing more heros', that's the manufacturer making a big mistake.
Under normal conditions, mortars are safe to handle and use. This isn't divine intervention, this isn't a ray of sunshine from the heavens disrupting the laws of nature and causing a supernatural event. Someone ****ed up. This was completely preventable.
I realize a lot of people want to resort to cliche bull**** because they're trying to cope, but the cold hard truth is this didn't have to happen, these Marines did not have to die, their deaths did not serve the greater good.
You aren't anyone, that I should worry about your opinion of me.You know, I reserved my opinion of you from the tuition assistance thread we were debating in but this one solidifies what I think of you.
Yeah, but also reduced the blast radius.
Some, yes..........................
No hey I have no issue with that...paying respect is great even to the lowest military positions (not saying these guys were in such positions, just making the general statement that even the most inglorious never-deployed clerk deserves respect). I consider every member of infantry greater than myself because while I pulled my share of duties, I don't think I was ever 'in the ****' they way infantry are...not even close. Everyone gets mortared, everyone gets IED'd, every convoy/ECP takes small-arms fire...that I went through those events does not make me special.I would be defending these guys if they were Army, National Guard, or any other service. It's not because they're Marines. And I do believe that they are worthy of being called heroes. They were training to defend our nation. Something you and I both do as well. I don't care if it comes down that one of them or all of them were at fault. They were still training for combat. Ground side guys (I don't know what you are) risk their life everytime they train. It's hard to train for combat and not have accidents or incidents. Many people don't realize the risk taken by servicemembers everyday during training. That is heroic. The definition of heroic is a: exhibiting or marked by courage and daring b: supremely noble or self-sacrificing. Is it not courageous, daring, and self sacrificing to jump out of an airplane, deal with explosives that may kill you, trust the Marine on a machine gun to not shoot you in the back while maneuvering, etc during training? Yes, it is.
...and just a quick FYI: if you don't want people like me entering your thread with contrary opinions...use the RIP tag when you make the thread. I respect the RIP tag, it's like a funeral and gives your thread a certain level of decorum. People like me will either play nice or leave those threads alone, and disrespecting an RIP tag will get the offender infraction points.Looks Like Heaven was in need of some more Heroes!
I can't imagine but quite alot. I was an 0351 back in the day, and dealt a medium bit with small demolitions. I wouldn't be able to do the math off-hand, but a single 60mm mortar round would have a lot of blast absorbed by breaking through a mortar tube.
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