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European leaders Spar over Greece Bailout

mbig

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I thought we had a done-deal.. Greece was going to be supported (fully 'Bailed out' if necessary) and the first tranche of Greek debt sold pretty well.

Apparently not.

European leaders spar over Greece bailout ahead of EU summit / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com
Robert Marquand/March 23, 2010

France, Italy, and Germany are at Loggerheads over a possible Greece bailout ahead of what was to be a routine EU summit this Thursday. Greece has threatened to go to the IMF if the EU can't help with the crisis.

 
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Greece is in no position to make demands, they lied about their deficit for years. If it were up to me, making idle threats would simply result in a swift kick from the Union.
The ECB can bail them out but no matter how you turn it, Greece is going to have to solve its own mess. They can't expect Europe to pay for Greece's spending problem.
 
I want to see all those arguing EU bosses skipping and smiling into the summit building. They wanted economic and political union, selling it to us as a grand utopia in which all nations together can get through any scrape together quite easily.

I want judicial dispensation to accost each one on the way in, fixing them a hard stare, and order with jabbing finger inches away from their noses, "skipping and laughing!"

...And they'd have to DO IT!
 
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The First euro 3 Billion of Bonds went well.. But 20-30 Billion are coming due in April and May.
The rubber hits the road soon.

Jim Rogers thinks they should let Greece go bankrupt and it would Help the Euro, not hurt it.
Would give credibility to the currency and not at all break it.
Like letting "Idaho" going bankrupt wouldn't hurt the US Dollar.
He said Greece may want to withdraw from the EU after that (not be kicked out).. so let them.

Bloomberg Interview:
Rogers Says Greece Should Not Be Bailed Out: Video -- GuruFocus.com
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and CNBC (Incl. Video)
http://www.cnbc.com/id/35906680

Naturally and still, not liking any Western currencies, he likes commodities, especially agri and metals.
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Republic_Of_Public said:
I want to see all those arguing EU bosses skipping and smiling into the summit building. They wanted economic and political union, selling it to us as a grand utopia in which all nations together can get through any scrape together quite easily.
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I have never heard anyone suggest it was going to be easy. Due to the very nature of those involved and the complexity of the actors [nation states] involved, EU processes and policies are generally in a state of flux.

As an example, the Single European Market [SEM] had/has many stages. Initially it was based on the 'four freedoms' [free movement of goods, services, labour and capital] that was pretty much all that bound community partners and this was set out in the treaty of Rome 1957......and as you may,or may not be aware, it continues to this day.

Paul
 
Done?

Eurozone agrees on bailout plan for Greece
Aoife White, AP Thursday March 25, 2010
 
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He is a moron. For a so called expert his views are very unrealistic. Bet he has shorted Euros so he is pushing for the Euro to nose dive so he can earn a bundle.
 
Would British taxpayers be funding a possible bailout?
 
Republic_Of_Public said:
Would British taxpayers be funding a possible bailout?
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Not through the EU unless the UK agrees to do so. But through the IMF.. kinda since the UK pays dues to the IMF which are used to bail out countries.

But as it has been stated.. this is only IF Greece needs it and so far it does not.
 
Thanks.

I bet Gordon Brown's got the cheque book on standby already. I'm surprised it hasn't run out of pages yet as, since becoming PM, he's already poured many billions of Pounds into bribing tropical paradises to start 'global cooling', cash and mineral-rich third world dictatorships or Asiatic nations with space and nuclear programmes pleading 'poverty'.

At least this time he'd have a fig leaf of justification in saying "Well when Labour virtually vapourised the economy last time we were in, the IMF helped us out. And you never know, there but for the grace of Gordo....". I just hope he knows what he's doing thinking you can splurge your way through trouble, or at least that's what he told us to do when shopping. (Don't save your money - it doesn't help the fluidity of our economy to have it gathering dust in Nat West, apparently, so spend or be taxed of it!)

Just venting there, excuse me.
 
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PeteEU said:
He is a moron. For a so called expert his views are very unrealistic. Bet he has shorted Euros so he is pushing for the Euro to nose dive so he can earn a bundle.
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Jim Rogers is anything but a "moron".

I believe he is short the Euro... and.. SO WHAT.
He is Long wheat too.
One invests on the side of profit, and he is quite public with his opinions and why.

And that's how this "moron" got rich and is one of the most admired investors on the Planet.
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Hence he has a vested interest in driving down the Euro.. ups... that is something called bias.. I know you yanks dont understand such things but hey!
 
PeteEU said:

Hence he has a vested interest in driving down the Euro.. ups... that is something called bias.. I know you yanks dont understand such things but hey!
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You've got Cause-and-effect Backwards.
(And this isn't a EUer problem, but clearly poster-specific/obtuse)

He's short BECAUSE he sees fundamental problems.
It's not something he inherited or is stuck with and has to shill.
Get Over it!

If someone wants to short the US dollar because of Our deficits (Or any/all currency in favor of commodities)... Hey, I don't blame them!
It's the right thing to do.
He's been right for years and will be rightER. One can only be thankful he shares his knowledge publicly/always has.
Only a Dolt would take it personally.
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So you dont think a well known "economist" with a lot of money in the market... speculating as he is... can not form an opinion based on his personal investments? It happens all the time, and is one of the problems with this whole episode and many others.. including the 150 dollar oil a year ago.

These "talking heads" have a vested interest for either their clients or themselves in a certain outcome and will do anything, even overstating a problem or understating, to gain an advantage.

Now that does not mean I dont agree Greece is a problem, but it is a 2% of the Eurozone.. it would be like Rhode Island brining down the US for god sake.
 
As I said, and you have not refuted, he has the position because he believes in it.
Because his beliefs are right so often, he is Asked/Begged to talk on them publicly-- so let's blame him!

And HE said (BEFORE your "Rhode Island"), the EU Should let Greece go because it was like the US letting "Idaho" go Bankrupt/would NOT affect the US currency significantly!
AS I summarized/specifically mentioned in My Post #4
DUH!
He also doesn't like the Pound NOR Dollar.

You really are not only Absurdly Wrong calling him a Moron, but you haven't even read the string and know NOTHING about economics.. just an overly sensitive defender/Euro-Xeno of a system you don't understand as well as he.
I suggest you read and listen to as much of him as you can (at least what I presented) instead of making yourself look stupendously goofy.

His record and success speaks for itself.
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I like both Rogers and Soros

But when either talk about currency's in a negative way, expect that both probably have shorted it

I believe they were working together when Soros's Tiger fund shorted the Pound, and helped drive the pound lower (as it was going to move anyway) and they made billions from that move

When Soros was talking down Gold a few months ago, saying it was the ultimate bubble, he was buying gold. He probably bought it cheaper from his talking it down some.

But overall you have to take into consideration their self interest (economic) when ever they are talking about investment opportunities
 

Yea his record speaks for it self. He is a speculator that uses media manipulation to further his own and that of his customers interests. Hence he is biased. He is no different than George Soros.
 
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All investors are speculators.
The entire idea of investing in anything is to increase ones holdings.
 
jujuman13 said:
All investors are speculators.
The entire idea of investing in anything is to increase ones holdings.
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Yea but not all investors/speculators can directly impact the market because of what their opinions are... that is a very big difference.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
Someone better buy someone out or all is lost. I dont understand why Greece isnt stabalised.
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Because they lied for years about their deficit. They need to regain the trust of the markets and the EU and are doing slowly. Their 10 year bond rate is falling constantly.. very slowly but falling. Greece is in no where near defaulting as it stands now and never was, but it is paying a price on its dishonesty in much higher (double) interest rates on its debt and that is damaging in the long run. Hence Greece is trying everything to get that rate down.
 
British banks allowed Soros to borrow 15 billion pounds. He bought dmarks which gave the pound an extra push downwards and he returned the loan. It's an epic story but the pound was coming down anyway, also without Soros his help.
We were talking about another 'moron' (I would love to be one of Pete's morons). Maybe you can explain me how Rogers shorted the Euro, the pound and the dollar.

Some people focus on self interest as if were a bad thing. That's why all those communists become famous investors (sic).
You don't buy gold or currency because Soros/Rogers tells you to, you buy because you believe in the why, the reasoning behind their strategy.
 
Djoop said:
because you believe in the why, the reasoning behind their strategy.
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People base a lot of their buying and selling on what "experts" like these two do. Hence their direct and indirect power to influence the market is far far larger than you dare admit. And they do it often.. voice their "opinions" about things and more than often you can see an effect on the markets especially when more than one "expert" says the same. Does not mean that the "expert" is correct in any way. "Experts" tried to push Spain into the same box as Greece early on and that failed badly because not even the mass media bought into that lie. What it did do, was to push up the interest rate on what Spain can loan for a while and now it is back to its normal low.. lower than the US and UK.
 
Likewise I think you grossly exaggerate the influence anyone could have on these markets. The market for euros is simply too big to make this story stick.
If you have 395 tons of gold lying around and announce a fire sale you can advice people to buy gold but don't expect too much of it.
 
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