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Europe: It’s Now or Never

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
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Europe can step up and avoid another Iron Curtain descending across the continent. Otherwise, Russia re-arms its military and again becomes a very real existential threat for many, many decades.

The security architecture that Europe has helped develop since WWII is at risk. Whatever happens vis-a-vis Ukraine will embolden dictators everywhere and very possibly have dark consequences across the globe.

If Ukraine is surrendered or partitioned, war is coming. To Europe. To Asia. Don't expect the support of Donald Trump. He is untrustworthy and power hungry.
 
The West has zero ability to prevent the Russians from rearming in the first place.

The West has proudly been enabling dictators in their aggression for decades in the name of fighting Russia.
 
From the link:

Russia is demanding that Ukraine cede territory it hasn’t even lost and that it gives up areas that were taken from it.

Utterly despicable. Putin clearly playing games with demands designed to stop all real progress.

The West has zero ability to prevent the Russians from rearming in the first place.

It would be a waste of effort to try. What Europe can and should do though is develop serious counter to Russian nuclear capability. As for Russia's military, they are still struggling to overcome a bunch of Ukrainian farmers and gamers.
 
It would be a waste of effort to try. What Europe can and should do though is develop serious counter to Russian nuclear capability. As for Russia's military, they are still struggling to overcome a bunch of Ukrainian farmers and gamers.
Not to mention.. look at the freaking numbers. Europe even without the US, have more men, planes, helicopters and so on than Russia. Only place we arguably could be behind is on tanks, but that is because the estimation of Russian tank stores is all over the place.

Russia is not at threat to a united Europe. That is why Putin supports people like Farage, Le Pen, the moron in Hungary, the demented pedophile nazi in Washington and many others.. because he does not want an united Europe, but a fractured one. Basically his tactic is an ancient one.. divide and conquer or at least divide and become "equal".
 
Putin supports people like Farage, Le Pen, the moron in Hungary, the demented pedophile nazi in Washington and many others.. because he does not want an united Europe, but a fractured one.

On this Pete, I can absolutely agree. Always amazes me when I see Europeans supporting Farage's desire to break up Europe. I think "why? haven't you done enough damage to the UK that you want to meddle in other nation's affairs and extend this catastrophe to them?"
 
Its the "clan" and "racist" ideology of the far right. It is so easy to use to gain political power, by pointing out people who dont act or look like the rest, and say "they are the reason" for whatever problem of the day. Hitler did it against socialists, gays, slavs, homosexuals and of course jews. The British Empire also did it to control their empire, as did the French and all other colonial power. It is the same shit over and over again in history and the population falls for it every single freaking time.
 
Ukraine spent almost a decade rebuilding its military after 2014. They were a lot more than just “farmers and gamers” by 2022.
 
Europe can step up and avoid another Iron Curtain descending across the continent. Otherwise, Russia re-arms its military and again becomes a very real existential threat for many, many decades.
Hyper-chicken little nonsense, What the Russia/Ukraine war has really shown is that Russia is not quite the threat everyone perceived it was. Their nukes are quite obviously a threat, however even those are barely maintained.
The security architecture that Europe has helped develop since WWII is at risk. Whatever happens vis-a-vis Ukraine will embolden dictators everywhere and very possibly have dark consequences across the globe.
You mean the security the US has provided? Up until Trump, European nations were very hesitant to kick in the obligatory 2% of GDP for their own defense. And only since the Ukraine war is Western Europe taking any threat from Russia seriously. Eastern Europe on the otherhand has been preparing.
If Ukraine is surrendered or partitioned, war is coming. To Europe. To Asia. Don't expect the support of Donald Trump. He is untrustworthy and power hungry.
Utter nonsense. No matter how the Russia/Ukraine war ends, Russia is now less of a threat and is now further surrounded by NATO nations. Putin may or may not end up gaining territory in Ukraine, however his goal of taking all of Ukraine is quite unlikely. Considering how much more of NATO borders Russia since before the invasion and how exposed the sad state of his miliary is, he still loses. And if war comes to Europe, article 5 kicks and the US gets involved. Perhaps in the future Europe will not be stupid enough to sign another Nordstream contract with Russia.
 
Hyper-chicken little nonsense, What the Russia/Ukraine war has really shown is that Russia is not quite the threat everyone perceived it was. Their nukes are quite obviously a threat, however even those are barely maintained.

Not the threat? Tens of thousands of UKrainians - soldiers and civilians alike - have perished in Putin's war of exp[ansion. I lost track of the number of times Russia threatened nuclear war over Ukraine. At least half of the nations of Europe have directly experienced Russian rule. The deportations to Siberia, the shots to the back of the neck, and the KGB torture chambers. Latvia has preserved the building in Riga where the KGB tortured Latvians in the basement. Why is it that MAGA, people like yourself, support the Russian dictatorship and work against a democracy like Ukraine? Why does MAGA love to crawl into bed with dictators and war criminals?

Kremlin’s Brutality Documented: US Rights Report Details Russian Atrocities in Ukraine, Internal Repression


Your FOX News propaganda won't cut it with me.....

With Ukraine war aid reaching $280 billion, who’s really funding the most – the US or EU?


With Chinese assistence, Moscow will be able to rearm its military quite quickly.

Article 5? Lol. No one in Europe trusts Donald Trump to honor his NATO committments. Trump is even sullying US soil with his Alaska invitation to the Russian war criminal.


 
Not the threat? Tens of thousands of UKrainians - soldiers and civilians alike - have perished in Putin's war of exp[ansion.

Your libruls are so much on edge, you fail to comprehend what you read. I did not use the term "Not a threat". And I think you sell the US and Europe short.
 
Latvia honors the local Nazi collaborators as national heroes. Nobody is shocked they are still sulking about the Soviets sending the SS fleeing back towards Germany.

The U.S. has proudly propped up dictators and war criminals across the globe in the name of “fighting Russia” for over a century.
 

I am curious if you can list a few nations that haven't propped-up dictators and war criminals, please?
 
As for Russia's military, they are still struggling to overcome a bunch of Ukrainian farmers and gamers.


It is more accurately Ukrainian farmers and gamers + hundreds of billions of dollars in western military/financial assistance. The hundreds of billions of dollars is always overlooked but it makes all the difference.

Now there is another war going on between Israel and Hamas in Gaza. Its still going on more than a year and half after the recent hostilities started. I will say Russia is performing better than Israel. Israel has one of the world's finest armies and air forces. Hamas does not enjoy the benefit of hundreds of billions of dollars in continuous military assistance. Israel does not even have to deal with vast distances. And it is taking Israel months and months. Makes me wonder how it would be if Hamas had a constant infusion of arms

I think wars can get complicated where smaller parties have big sponsors
 
…..most nations?

You rather have to go out of your way to do so.

Since it seems you agree that 'most nations' prop-up dictators and war criminals, it is more a matter of degree.

In your opinion, which nations are most culpable?
 
Since it seems you agree that 'most nations' prop-up dictators and war criminals, it is more a matter of degree.

In your opinion, which nations are most culpable?
…..that’s like the exact opposition of what I said?
 
…..that’s like the exact opposition of what I said?

Fair enough.

I will give you another shot:

I am curious if you can list a few nations that haven't propped-up dictators and war criminals, please?
 
Fair enough.

I will give you another shot:

I am curious if you can list a few nations that haven't propped-up dictators and war criminals, please?
Again, most countries don’t go around crushing others’ democracies and installing puppet dictators.
 
I don’t feel the will within Europe. We are wallowing in our stagflationLeaders talk a big game, but they are incredibly unpopular within their own countries
 

That may not be completely false but debatable. Anything on the topic?
 
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