Equal Accountability Equals Equality

ryobi · Oct 18, 2015

When women are convicted of the same crimes as men they recieve 63% lighter sentences than their male counterparts, and thats after being many times less likely to even be prosecuted in the first place when they're arrested. That's not accountability.

A 2009 study for the United States Department of Labor found that all but 5% of the 22% wage gap is explained by choice and there's no evidence to suggest the remaining 5% is the result of discrimination. In fact evidence suggests that the 5% is the result of more choice that just can't be quantified because of the limitatation of the researchers model, multivariate regression analysis.

One of the things the study found is women are more likely to choose to study subjects at university like fine arts and men are more likely to choose to study subjects at university like physics, therefore men are qualified for more lucrative careers when they graduate, so they make more money. Yet the fact that women make less money because of their choices is men's fault according to feminists? That's not accountability.

A woman drinks, has sex, regrets the sex the next day, so it's rape? That's not accountability.

If feminists want equality between the genders then shouldn't they be working to hold women equally accountable for the consequences of their actions and choices?

But feminists aren't working to hold women accountable for the consequences of their actions and choices because feminism isn't an equality movement.

SmokeAndMirrors · Oct 18, 2015

ryobi said:
When women are convicted of the same crimes as men they recieve 63% lighter sentences than their male counterparts, and thats after being many times less likely to even be prosecuted in the first place when they're arrested. That's not accountability.

A 2009 study for the United States Department of Labor found that all but 5% of the 22% wage gap is explained by choice and there's no evidence to suggest the remaining 5% is the result of discrimination. In fact evidence suggests that the 5% is the result of more choice that just can't be quantified because of the limitatation of the researchers model, multivariate regression analysis.

One of the things the study found is women are more likely to choose to study subjects at university like fine arts and men are more likely to choose to study subjects at university like physics, therefore men are qualified for more lucrative careers when they graduate, so they make more money. Yet the fact that women make less money because of their choices is men's fault according to feminists? That's not accountability.

A woman drinks, has sex, regrets the sex the next day, so it's rape? That's not accountability.

If feminists want equality between the genders then shouldn't they be working to hold women equally accountable for the consequences of their actions and choices?

But feminists aren't working to hold women accountable for the consequences of their actions and choices because feminism isn't an equality movement.

Firstly, you're looking at this a bit backwards.

It is not a panel of feminists who decide a woman gets a lighter sentence. It is mostly old white men -- the same people who decide most things -- who believe women are child-like and therefore shouldn't be held to the same intellectual standard.

First wave feminists actually attacked this very directly, deliberately breaking the law (non-destructively) and arguing with hesitant police that they ought to be arrested, as women are intelligent enough to understand their actions.

So if you want to actually do something meaningful about this, the people to aim it at is judges.

The false rape apologetics are nonsense. False rape accusations are actually extremely rare, and they are not any more common than false accusations of any other crime (violence, robbery, etc -- all have a small amount of false reporting). Only 8% of rape cases lack evidence, and only about 1% are deemed to be likely false (usually lack of evidence is due to a time lapse between the event and the report). If anything, rape is still underreported due to the (unfortunately valid) fear women have of being attacked for reporting. By their own admission, incarcerated rapists only get reported about once every four times they commit a rape.

Most women who have a regretful one-night-stand chalk it up as a simple mistake. There is no evidence otherwise, nor have I ever seen any in reality. This whole idea is just some kind of tantrum chauvinist men are having over the idea that they are not entitled to sex.

As far as the job stuff, no, there is a gap even for a given women doing the exact same profession as a given man. The reasons for this are complicated, and they don't entirely come down to employer discrimination (at least not solely based on sex and nothing else), but they do come down to social inequalities which disadvantage women in the workforce.

So, no. Try again.

- A feminist who spends at least half her time addressing the intellectual accountability related to rights.

ryobi · Oct 18, 2015

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Firstly, you're looking at this a bit backwards.

It is not a panel of feminists who decide a woman gets a lighter sentence. It is mostly old white men -- the same people who decide most things -- who believe women are child-like and therefore shouldn't be held to the same intellectual standard.

First wave feminists actually attacked this very directly, deliberately breaking the law (non-destructively) and arguing with hesitant police that they ought to be arrested, as women are intelligent enough to understand their actions.

So if you want to actually do something meaningful about this, the people to aim it at is judges.

The false rape apologetics are nonsense. False rape accusations are actually extremely rare, and they are not any more common than false accusations of any other crime (violence, robbery, etc -- all have a small amount of false reporting). Only 8% of rape cases lack evidence, and only about 1% are deemed to be likely false (usually lack of evidence is due to a time lapse between the event and the report). If anything, rape is still underreported due to the (unfortunately valid) fear women have of being attacked for reporting. By their own admission, incarcerated rapists only get reported about once every four times they commit a rape.

Most women who have a regretful one-night-stand chalk it up as a simple mistake. There is no evidence otherwise, nor have I ever seen any in reality. This whole idea is just some kind of tantrum chauvinist men are having over the idea that they are not entitled to sex.

As far as the job stuff, no, there is a gap even for a given women doing the exact same profession as a given man. The reasons for this are complicated, and they don't entirely come down to employer discrimination (at least not solely based on sex and nothing else), but they do come down to social inequalities which disadvantage women in the workforce.

So, no. Try again.

- A feminist who spends at least half her time addressing the intellectual accountability related to rights.

For decades, sexism in higher education has been blamed for blocking women from landing academic positions in STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) fields.
But a new study by Cornell psychologists suggests that era has ended, finding in experiments with professors from 371 colleges and universities across the United States that science and engineering faculty preferred women two-to-one over identically qualified male candidates for assistant professor positions.

Published online April 13 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the paper, “National Hiring Experiments Reveal 2:1 Faculty Preference For Women on STEM Tenure Track,” by Wendy M. Williams, professor of human development, and Stephen J. Ceci, the Helen L. Carr Professor of Developmental Psychology, both in Cornell’s College of Human Ecology, argues that the academic job market has never been better for women Ph.D.s in math-intensive fields

Women preferred 2:1 over men for STEM faculty positions | Cornell Chronicle

When you're preferred 2 to 1 you're not being discriminated against and...

Most likely every single percent of the 22% wage gap is the result of choice it's just that the researchers couldn't quantify the 5% due to the limitatations of their model, multivariate regression analysis.

The choice the researchers couldn't quantify is women tend to choose more compensation in the form of benefits than men.

However, there was a high R-value (coefficient of correlation) between benefits and other dependant variables in the model, like experience.

When there is a high R-value between dependent variables in multivariate regression analysis there is said to be colinearity.

When there's colinearity in multivariaty regression analysis you can't tell what's influencing what.

Is the dependant variable, benefits, being influenced by the independant variable, gender, or is the dependant variable, benefits, being influenced by another dependant variable in the model, like experience.

However, it's likely every single percent of that 22% wage gap is the result of choice and CHOICE IS NOT DISCRIMINATION.

Take responsibility for the consequences of your actions and choices. Stop blaming everyone but yourself for the consequences of your actions and choices. That's equality.

Moreover, if Feminism is an equality movement then why don't you hear feminists complaining about the sentencing gap at least as often as the wage gap. The sentencing gap is 63% and the wage gap is 22% , and 63 is greater than 22-right?

I have a video of dozens of feminists sexually and physically assaulting peaceful passive men while thousands of other feminists cheer them on.

Is sexually and physically assaulting peaceful passive people something an equality movement does or something a supremacist hate movement does?

ryobi · Oct 18, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUb9Yb2ucZI

http://www.consad.com/content/reports/Gender Wage Gap Final Report.pdf

ryobi · Oct 18, 2015

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Firstly, you're looking at this a bit backwards.

It is not a panel of feminists who decide a woman gets a lighter sentence. It is mostly old white men -- the same people who decide most things -- who believe women are child-like and therefore shouldn't be held to the same intellectual standard.

First wave feminists actually attacked this very directly, deliberately breaking the law (non-destructively) and arguing with hesitant police that they ought to be arrested, as women are intelligent enough to understand their actions.

So if you want to actually do something meaningful about this, the people to aim it at is judges.

The false rape apologetics are nonsense. False rape accusations are actually extremely rare, and they are not any more common than false accusations of any other crime (violence, robbery, etc -- all have a small amount of false reporting). Only 8% of rape cases lack evidence, and only about 1% are deemed to be likely false (usually lack of evidence is due to a time lapse between the event and the report). If anything, rape is still underreported due to the (unfortunately valid) fear women have of being attacked for reporting. By their own admission, incarcerated rapists only get reported about once every four times they commit a rape.

Most women who have a regretful one-night-stand chalk it up as a simple mistake. There is no evidence otherwise, nor have I ever seen any in reality. This whole idea is just some kind of tantrum chauvinist men are having over the idea that they are not entitled to sex.

As far as the job stuff, no, there is a gap even for a given women doing the exact same profession as a given man. The reasons for this are complicated, and they don't entirely come down to employer discrimination (at least not solely based on sex and nothing else), but they do come down to social inequalities which disadvantage women in the workforce.

So, no. Try again.

- A feminist who spends at least half her time addressing the intellectual accountability related to rights.

So, you're saying the consequences of women's actions and choices are men's fault. That's not accountability.

As an egalitarian I believe people should be held equally accountable for the consequences of their actions and choices regardless of gender.

As a Feminist, do you disagree?

SmokeAndMirrors · Oct 18, 2015

ryobi said:
So, you're saying the consequences of women's actions and choices are men's fault. That's not accountability.

As an egalitarian I believe people should be held equally accountable for the consequences of their actions and choices regardless of gender.

As a Feminist, do you disagree?

No. Some men are feminists.

Is a woman's sentence decided by a panel of feminists?

If the answer to this question is no -- which it is -- then why are you blaming feminists? This has been true since long before feminism even existed, and at various points feminists have directly attacked it.

Yes. I just also believe in targeting critiques correctly and that you blaming feminists for things they didn't do, and actively oppose, is rather silly.

I'm ignoring your link above because it has nothing to do with what I said. Now you're talking about AA-related stuff, which is completely different, and I just said this doesn't have a ton to do with the employers, did I not? Please learn to read people's replies. It makes them more likely to care what you say.

ryobi · Oct 18, 2015

SmokeAndMirrors said:
No. Some men are feminists.

Is a woman's sentence decided by a panel of feminists?

If the answer to this question is no -- which it is -- then why are you blaming feminists? This has been true since long before feminism even existed, and at various points feminists have directly attacked it.

Yes. I just also believe in targeting critiques correctly and that you blaming feminists for things they didn't do, and actively oppose, is rather silly.

I'm ignoring your link above because it has nothing to do with what I said. Now you're talking about AA-related stuff, which is completely different, and I just said this doesn't have a ton to do with the employers, did I not? Please learn to read people's replies. It makes them more likely to care what you say.

I see.

ryobi · Oct 18, 2015

SmokeAndMirrors said:
No. Some men are feminists.

Is a woman's sentence decided by a panel of feminists?

If the answer to this question is no -- which it is -- then why are you blaming feminists? This has been true since long before feminism even existed, and at various points feminists have directly attacked it.

Yes. I just also believe in targeting critiques correctly and that you blaming feminists for things they didn't do, and actively oppose, is rather silly.

I'm ignoring your link above because it has nothing to do with what I said. Now you're talking about AA-related stuff, which is completely different, and I just said this doesn't have a ton to do with the employers, did I not? Please learn to read people's replies. It makes them more likely to care what you say.

''''As far as the job stuff, no, there is a gap eveinationn for a given women doing the exact same profession as a given man. The reasons for this are complicated, and they don't entirely come down to employer discrimination (at least not solely based on sex and nothing else), but they do come down to social inequalities which disadvantage women in the workforce.""""

ryobi · Oct 18, 2015

SmokeAndMirrors said:
No. Some men are feminists.

Is a woman's sentence decided by a panel of feminists?

If the answer to this question is no -- which it is -- then why are you blaming feminists? This has been true since long before feminism even existed, and at various points feminists have directly attacked it.

Yes. I just also believe in targeting critiques correctly and that you blaming feminists for things they didn't do, and actively oppose, is rather silly.

I'm ignoring your link above because it has nothing to do with what I said. Now you're talking about AA-related stuff, which is completely different, and I just said this doesn't have a ton to do with the employers, did I not? Please learn to read people's replies. It makes them more likely to care what you say.

Moreover, if Feminism is an equality movement then why don't you hear feminists complaining about the sentencing gap at least as often as the wage gap. The sentencing gap is 63% and the wage gap is 22% , and 63 is greater than 22-right????

Nilly · Oct 18, 2015

ryobi said:
When women are convicted of the same crimes as men they recieve 63% lighter sentences than their male counterparts, and thats after being many times less likely to even be prosecuted in the first place when they're arrested. That's not accountability.

[...]

There are a number of issues that come under the umbrella 'feminism'. Of course feminists efforts are concerted on some specific topics. Most of the issues have are manifestations of a patriarchal society, not the fault of feminists, or even of women. So instead of blaming them for things out of their control maybe come be a feminist and help fix it .

This sums things up nicely - not written by me:

http://bit.ly/1j6fkaH said:
Feminists do not want you to lose custody of your children. The assumption that women are naturally better caregivers is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not like commercials in which bumbling dads mess up the laundry and competent wives have to bustle in and fix it. The assumption that women are naturally better housekeepers is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to have to make alimony payments. Alimony is set up to combat the fact that women have been historically expected to prioritize domestic duties over professional goals, thus minimizing their earning potential if their "traditional" marriages end. The assumption that wives should make babies instead of money is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want anyone to get raped in prison. Permissiveness and jokes about prison rape are part of rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want anyone to be falsely accused of rape. False rape accusations discredit rape victims, which reinforces rape culture, which is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to be lonely and we do not hate "nice guys." The idea that certain people are inherently more valuable than other people because of superficial physical attributes is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to have to pay for dinner. We want the opportunity to achieve financial success on par with men in any field we choose (and are qualified for), and the fact that we currently don't is part of patriarchy. The idea that men should coddle and provide for women, and/or purchase their affections in romantic contexts, is condescending and damaging and part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to be maimed or killed in industrial accidents, or toil in coal mines while we do cushy secretarial work and various yarn-themed activities. The fact that women have long been shut out of dangerous industrial jobs (by men, by the way) is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to commit suicide. Any pressures and expectations that lower the quality of life of any gender are part of patriarchy. The fact that depression is characterized as an effeminate weakness, making men less likely to seek treatment, is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to be viewed with suspicion when you take your child to the park (men frequently insist that this is a serious issue, so I will take them at their word). The assumption that men are insatiable sexual animals, combined with the idea that it's unnatural for men to care for children, is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want you to be drafted and then die in a war while we stay home and iron stuff. The idea that women are too weak to fight or too delicate to function in a military setting is part of patriarchy.

Feminists do not want women to escape prosecution on legitimate domestic violence charges, nor do we want men to be ridiculed for being raped or abused. The idea that women are naturally gentle and compliant and that victimhood is inherently feminine is part of patriarchy.

Feminists hate patriarchy. We do not hate you.

If you really care about those issues as passionately as you say you do, you should be thanking feminists, because feminism is a social movement actively dedicated to dismantling every single one of them. The fact that you blame feminists—your allies—for problems against which they have been struggling for decades suggests that supporting men isn't nearly as important to you as resenting women. We care about your problems a lot. Could you try caring about ours?

The very last sentence resonates a lot in this particular case IMO.

FYI - I'm a guy.

ryobi · Oct 18, 2015

Nilly said:
There are a number of issues that come under the umbrella 'feminism'. Of course feminists efforts are concerted on some specific topics. Most of the issues have are manifestations of a patriarchal society, not the fault of feminists, or even of women. So instead of blaming them for things out of their control maybe come be a feminist and help fix it .

This sums things up nicely - not written by me:

The very last sentence resonates a lot in this particular case IMO.

FYI - I'm a guy.

No thanks.

I don't want to be a feminist. I believe in equality.

ryobi · Oct 18, 2015

SmokeAndMirrors said:
No. Some men are feminists.

Is a woman's sentence decided by a panel of feminists?

If the answer to this question is no -- which it is -- then why are you blaming feminists? This has been true since long before feminism even existed, and at various points feminists have directly attacked it.

Yes. I just also believe in targeting critiques correctly and that you blaming feminists for things they didn't do, and actively oppose, is rather silly.

I'm ignoring your link above because it has nothing to do with what I said. Now you're talking about AA-related stuff, which is completely different, and I just said this doesn't have a ton to do with the employers, did I not? Please learn to read people's replies. It makes them more likely to care what you say.

I know how we can solve this debate SmokeAndMirrors.

You can show me your scientific study saying there is a 22% wage gap thats the result of discrimination and you can show me evidence of Feminists robust efforts to hold women as equally accountable as men for their actions and choices when they do things like commit crimes and decide to study woman's studies instead of physics.

..and a blog isn't a scientific study by the way.

I supported my claims with evidence from scientific studies. Surely your claims are supported by evidence, like from scientific studies too-right?

ryobi · Oct 18, 2015

SmokeAndMirrors said:
No. Some men are feminists.

Is a woman's sentence decided by a panel of feminists?

If the answer to this question is no -- which it is -- then why are you blaming feminists? This has been true since long before feminism even existed, and at various points feminists have directly attacked it.

Yes. I just also believe in targeting critiques correctly and that you blaming feminists for things they didn't do, and actively oppose, is rather silly.

I'm ignoring your link above because it has nothing to do with what I said. Now you're talking about AA-related stuff, which is completely different, and I just said this doesn't have a ton to do with the employers, did I not? Please learn to read people's replies. It makes them more likely to care what you say.

LOL.. I don't expect you to care what I say.

I believe in equality and you are a feminist.

Nilly · Oct 19, 2015

ryobi said:
No thanks.

I don't want to be a feminist. I believe in equality.

And like I just said, so do feminists. Your perception of the situation is incorrect. The issues that you have talked about are manifestations of an patriarchal society and that's what feminists fight against. You're just too busy resenting feminists to understand that.

SmokeAndMirrors · Oct 19, 2015

ryobi said:
LOL.. I don't expect you to care what I say.

I believe in equality and you are a feminist.

Dude, will you please stop spamming me? This is not a chat room; respond to posts one time.

I have simply lost interest in your foot-stomping, and I am not going to try to glue together the 5 separate posts you've made (amazingly, none of which have any content to refute anyway) pertaining to my one. Quit spamming me.

Harry Guerrilla · Oct 19, 2015

ryobi said:
When women are convicted of the same crimes as men they recieve 63% lighter sentences than their male counterparts, and thats after being many times less likely to even be prosecuted in the first place when they're arrested. That's not accountability.

A 2009 study for the United States Department of Labor found that all but 5% of the 22% wage gap is explained by choice and there's no evidence to suggest the remaining 5% is the result of discrimination. In fact evidence suggests that the 5% is the result of more choice that just can't be quantified because of the limitatation of the researchers model, multivariate regression analysis.

One of the things the study found is women are more likely to choose to study subjects at university like fine arts and men are more likely to choose to study subjects at university like physics, therefore men are qualified for more lucrative careers when they graduate, so they make more money. Yet the fact that women make less money because of their choices is men's fault according to feminists? That's not accountability.

A woman drinks, has sex, regrets the sex the next day, so it's rape? That's not accountability.

If feminists want equality between the genders then shouldn't they be working to hold women equally accountable for the consequences of their actions and choices?

But feminists aren't working to hold women accountable for the consequences of their actions and choices because feminism isn't an equality movement.

I understand what you're saying and may even agree with it.
With all that said, learn to be pithy and cite sources ahead of time.

Don't spam and be generally overzealous.
It will take you miles.

Harry Guerrilla · Oct 19, 2015

Nilly said:
There are a number of issues that come under the umbrella 'feminism'. Of course feminists efforts are concerted on some specific topics. Most of the issues have are manifestations of a patriarchal society, not the fault of feminists, or even of women. So instead of blaming them for things out of their control maybe come be a feminist and help fix it .

You can't blame everything on patriarchy, sorry.
When that happens, you start sounding like a fundy Christian blaming everything on satan.

And essentially, that's what feminism has become, a fundy religion.

Egalitarianism is superior to feminism all days of the week.
With it, you seek to remove injustices regardless of gender.

Nilly said:
The very last sentence resonates a lot in this particular case IMO.

FYI - I'm a guy.

Who cares what gender you are?
A guy wrote this piece labeling men as "birth defects" and it doesn't make you immune to criticism or bolster your case.

The End of Male Supremacy - The Chronicle of Higher Education

Nilly · Oct 19, 2015

Harry Guerrilla said:
You can't blame everything on patriarchy, sorry.
When that happens, you start sounding like a fundy Christian blaming everything on satan.

And essentially, that's what feminism has become, a fundy religion.

Egalitarianism is superior to feminism all days of the week.
With it, you seek to remove injustices regardless of gender.

Ok so tell me who made the rules/gives the sentences for the issue pointed out by Ryobi. Why do those differences exist? I"ll tell you one thing, it's certainly not spiteful feminists who did it. Egalitarianism is great, but there are so many issues facing so many people that just being an 'egalitarianist' is akin to sitting there doing nothing. People focus on issues specific to them, of course they do, it's much easier to be proactive when you have skin in the game. It's something everyone does, but apparently only feminists get called out on it. The world is currently not an equal place for women. Feminism addresses that.

Harry Guerrilla said:
Who cares what gender you are?
A guy wrote this piece labeling men as "birth defects" and it doesn't make you immune to criticism or bolster your case.

The End of Male Supremacy - The Chronicle of Higher Education

Normally I don't feel my gender is relevant but I posted it here because given my post I immediately thought that Ryobi would label me a woman and refer to me as such in the thread. I just wanted to pre-empt that. Not trying to bolster my case or anything.

Harry Guerrilla · Oct 19, 2015

Nilly said:
Ok so tell me who made the rules/gives the sentences for the issue pointed out by Ryobi. Why do those differences exist? I"ll tell you one thing, it's certainly not spiteful feminists who did it. Egalitarianism is great, but there are so many issues facing so many people that just being an 'egalitarianist' is akin to sitting there doing nothing. People focus on issues specific to them, of course they do, it's much easier to be proactive when you have skin in the game. It's something everyone does, but apparently only feminists get called out on it. The world is currently not an equal place for women. Feminism addresses that.

Judges, which incidentally are both men and women.

The world, no it's not an equal place for women (or men for that matter).
The developed world, on the other hand is a wonderland for women.

Feminism gets called out because people are getting tired of stupid **** being called sexist.
Do you read any of these articles put out by feminist writers?
Air conditioning is sexist, video games are sexist, everything is sexist (Sarkessian said this).
It's become a religion.

With the evil patriarchy (hello fallacy of a single cause) being the "devil."

Feminism is largely for privileged middle-upper middle class white women, who claim to be oppressed.
It's a joke.

Nilly said:
Normally I don't feel my gender is relevant but I posted it here because given my post I immediately thought that Ryobi would label me a woman and refer to me as such in the thread. I just wanted to pre-empt that. Not trying to bolster my case or anything.

You're gender is completely irrelevant.
There are plenty of male feminists, it doesn't make them any less fallacious than female feminists.

Sorry but feminism was cool when true equality was it's alleged goal.
Now that many of these feminists are resorting to tactics of censoring, bigotry and prejudice, it's over.

Nilly · Oct 19, 2015

Harry Guerrilla said:
Judges, which incidentally are both men and women.

Judges, which incidentally are primarily men.

Fixed that for you. Especially when you consider these sentencing disparities are historical and so are rooted in a time when even more of the judiciary were male.

Harry Guerrilla said:
The world, no it's not an equal place for women (or men for that matter).
The developed world, on the other hand is a wonderland for women.

Feminism gets called out because people are getting tired of stupid **** being called sexist.
Do you read any of these articles put out by feminist writers?
Air conditioning is sexist, video games are sexist, everything is sexist (Sarkessian said this).
It's become a religion.

With the evil patriarchy (hello fallacy of a single cause) being the "devil."

Feminism is largely for privileged middle-upper middle class white women, who claim to be oppressed.
It's a joke.

There are plenty of stupid writers out there. That doesn't mean that there are more institutionalized roadblocks for women than there are men. Why are there fewer women than men in high level executive positions, political positions, judicial positions etc? Do you really believe that it's a conscious choice that women are on average, less successful, less wealthy etc? To claim that there is no systematic inequality causing the disparity between the sexes is to claim that men are simply better/smarter/more hard working than women. This, obviously, is not the case.

Harry Guerrilla said:
You're gender is completely irrelevant.

Thanks. I said as much in my own post but good work on rephrasing it and saying it again.

Harry Guerrilla said:
There are plenty of male feminists, it doesn't make them any less fallacious than female feminists.

Sorry but feminism was cool when true equality was it's alleged goal.
Now that many of these feminists are resorting to tactics of censoring, bigotry and prejudice, it's over.

It's not about being cool. It's about tackling inequalities. Sure, there are crazy women out there who simply hate men. There are radical feminists and women who are simply being irrational. However the majority of these simply are rising to the top of the crazy pile in the echo chamber that is the internet. The only reason they are on your radar is because they are crazy. For what it's worth, I've never met any such woman personally in my life, and, given my stance on the matter, I know quite a few feminists in person.

ryobi · Oct 19, 2015

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Dude, will you please stop spamming me? This is not a chat room; respond to posts one time.

I have simply lost interest in your foot-stomping, and I am not going to try to glue together the 5 separate posts you've made (amazingly, none of which have any content to refute anyway) pertaining to my one. Quit spamming me.

I see.

Harry Guerrilla · Oct 19, 2015

Nilly said:
Judges, which incidentally are primarily men.

Fixed that for you. Especially when you consider these sentencing disparities are historical and so are rooted in a time when even more of the judiciary were male.

Yes, I know that.
Funny how feminists only address issues where they're at a disadvantage.
Then claim they're for equality.
Being for equality means actually addressing issues that don't affect you (or your group), but others.

Nilly said:
There are plenty of stupid writers out there. That doesn't mean that there are more institutionalized roadblocks for women than there are men. Why are there fewer women than men in high level executive positions, political positions, judicial positions etc? Do you really believe that it's a conscious choice that women are on average, less successful, less wealthy etc? To claim that there is no systematic inequality causing the disparity between the sexes is to claim that men are simply better/smarter/more hard working than women. This, obviously, is not the case.

I never claimed they were less of any of those things, that's a straw man.

What I do believe is that women (generally) choose not to pursue these things, out of their own volition.
That does not equivocate to patriarchy or sexism, but pure choice.

Nilly said:
It's not about being cool. It's about tackling inequalities. Sure, there are crazy women out there who simply hate men. There are radical feminists and women who are simply being irrational. However the majority of these simply are rising to the top of the crazy pile in the echo chamber that is the internet. The only reason they are on your radar is because they are crazy. For what it's worth, I've never met any such woman personally in my life, and, given my stance on the matter, I know quite a few feminists in person.

It's not that all feminists are crazy, it's that more level headed feminists believe in bull**** like, patriarchy hypothesis or the wage gap (that's driven by sexism).
The lack of skepticism in their own group is a problem.

It's a political/religious echo chamber.
Questioning it often comes with accusations of misogyny.

ryobi · Oct 19, 2015

Harry Guerrilla said:
Yes, I know that.
Funny how feminists only address issues where they're at a disadvantage.
Then claim they're for equality.
Being for equality means actually addressing issues that don't affect you (or your group), but others.

I never claimed they were less of any of those things, that's a straw man.

What I do believe is that women (generally) choose not to pursue these things, out of their own volition.
That does not equivocate to patriarchy or sexism, but pure choice.

It's not that all feminists are crazy, it's that more level headed feminists believe in bull**** like, patriarchy hypothesis or the wage gap (that's driven by sexism).
The lack of skepticism in their own group is a problem.

It's a political/religious echo chamber.
Questioning it often comes with accusations of misogyny.

Calling someone a misogynist for criticizing feminism is like calling someone a racist for criticizing slavery.

People that call egalitarians misogynists are either too stupid to get the egalitarian arguments and/or they're sexist and racist.

ryobi · Oct 19, 2015

I think it's funny I'm getting posting advice.

I'm not new to internet forums and debate.

It's not that it's my first time on a forum. It's that I annihilated the opposition on other forums and they got tired of losing and picked up their ball and went home.

Can you hang?

It looks like smokeandmirrors already got tired of losing and has picked up her ball and gone home-eh?

SmokeAndMirrors · Oct 19, 2015

ryobi said:
I think it's funny I'm getting posting advice.

I'm not new to internet forums and debate.

It's not that it's my first time on a forum. It's that I annihilated the opposition on other forums and they got tired of losing and picked up their ball and went home.

Can you hang?

It looks like smokeandmirrors already got tired of losing and has picked up her ball and gone home-eh?

"LOL" and "I see" is not a "annihilation," dude. :lol: I think you need a reality check. I think it's more likely people simply got bored of you.

As you may have noticed, you get notifications when someone replies to your post, and it was getting really annoying that you kept filling up my list with nonsense. Especially since your responses where so lacking in any substance. You didn't really give me anything to respond to in the first place.

I just wanted you to stop bogging down my feed.

Equal Accountability Equals Equality

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