OldWorldOrder
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lol hero worship. Why did he go to Hong Kong, again?
More bath tub bubbles. Please post links to prove your accusations.
By exposing what he knew he betrayed his government but maybe not the people of the US an the world. So on the one hand he is a traitor for making secrets public and on the other hand he has made public some things the public should have been told ages ago and that makes him kind of a hero too.
Snowden could have just given his information to a foreign government which would have made him a traitor.
lol hero worship. Why did he go to Hong Kong, again?
I value and respect your opinion on most posts and subjects, but on this particular subject I think you're giving our government way more credit than it deserves for being able to police itself.1) No. I am claiming that the law was not broken. It may well be an unconstitutional law, as many are, including gun control laws. Setting a precedent that one's "strong personal belief" that a law is unconstitutional means that breaking that law is OK is not a wise idea.
2) In your opinion he was justified in releasing classified information that you deem to be harmless, or even his patriotic duty, because you were not aware of it. If you and folks of like mind are on his jury then his breaking of the law can be nullified by the jury.
Bubbles, me darlin', it's because he was not a fool, perhaps you should try to follow his example. Witness Manning and the Apache helo murders, Julian Assange and the phony sex charges, Guantanamo and no home to go to, and the prosecution of patriotic whistleblowers and he obviously made the correct decision. Ask the CIA whistle blower that blew in Abu Ghraib. Ask Ciriaciou (sp). It's not favorable to your health to embarrass the "control (convict small ugly troll)" group.
From what I have seen there is no circumstantial evidence whatsoever that he shared his info with them. I'm sure they wanted him to, and I really have no doubt it was mentioned by them, but there is no evidence suggesting he did. He may have shared, he may not have, but just being there is not evidence of any kind.If you think he didn't share things- much more than has been made public- with the Chinese and Russians, you're so gullible. Circumstantial evidence would indicate that was his goal- the entire point of what he did.
Now, if you don't care about treason, then no biggie.
From what I have seen there is no circumstantial evidence whatsoever that he shared his info with them. I'm sure they wanted him to, and I really have no doubt it was mentioned by them, but there is no evidence suggesting he did. He may have shared, he may not have, but just being there is not evidence of any kind.
I think you mean hard evidence. There's plenty of circumstantial evidence. If there were any hard evidence, though, that would be classified for obvious reasons.
Maybe some heroic patriot can release that, too, since people just love leaking classified information.
Edward Snowden... today. (15 December 2013)
Now that some time has passed, and we have had a chance to view some of the ramifications of his actions, and how the government has reacted, how do you view Edward Snowden today?
Hero? Traitor? Somewhere in between?
Does your view of him today vary from your initial view after he first released documents?
Another bubble from the "Missing link" hisself. "Heroes" to you are "what a guy does in a boat."
I value and respect your opinion on most posts and subjects, but on this particular subject I think you're giving our government way more credit than it deserves for being able to police itself.
I view going to Hong Kong and Russia as simply self-preservation. There were few options and he had to take what he could get.I view Snowden today as I've always viewed him. I sniveling shell of a man, hipster douche bag. In other words, a traitor (on par with the Army guy/gal that release info to wikileaks). That being said, what has been revealed is important and should have come out. It is a matter that deserves discussion and the sanitizing effect of the light of day. The problem is, it's not what you say, but how you say it. The information he has revealed was done so as he was on the run to HK, then Russia. Are these the actions of a hero? No. Also, the information has been released haphazardly with the intention to damage the standing of the US internationally. Again, not the actions of a patriot hero. On the scale of traitor to hero, I find him just a couple ticks to the right of traitor (close to full out traitor), the only mitigating factor being the domestic information disclosed.
This post made no sense
I agree that the gov't will never police itself, that is why we have (had?) the constitution. The problem, as I see it, is that the extra constitutional power taken by the federal gov't (mostly) is still in full force. Shining a light does not eliminate roaches, it simply causes them to briefly seek cover.
Our nine robed umpires were not granted the power to toss penalty flags. So long as the POTUS (and by extension the entire executive branch below them) is immune from prosecution, they have unlimited power. The only real check on that executive power is impeachment but, for that to be effective, it requires the House to bring charges and the Senate to convict - I see no hope of that happening given the current mindset of our congress critters.
All that a whistle blower can do is to shine a light on the executive roaches, it still requires the other branches of gov't to act as the exterminator.
I view going to Hong Kong and Russia as simply self-preservation. There were few options and he had to take what he could get.
It astounds me that staying in the US, and essentially being hidden away in secret and thus lost to public consciousness, is viewed by anybody as a better option.
Pretty much my opinion as well. The government's actions and reactions since then, if anything, have only served to reinforce my conclusions.
Edward Snowden... today. (15 December 2013)
Now that some time has passed, and we have had a chance to view some of the ramifications of his actions, and how the government has reacted, how do you view Edward Snowden today?
Hero? Traitor? Somewhere in between?
Does your view of him today vary from your initial view after he first released documents?
I agree with what you say in theory, but in reality I believe that said light is snuffed out when the whistle blower tries to play by the rules. A lone individual playing by the rules against an entire bureaucratic apparatus not playing by the rules isn't very good odds.
If Snowden had done what you suggest, I believe the government would have arrested him and hidden him away from public consciousness, taken his information, and NOT done anything to re-think what they're doing, but rather only fixed any potential holes/leaks so that they could keep doing it.
The sole "lesson" learned by the government would have been... "We need to secure ourselves better."
"Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! -- Pericles (430 B.C.)"
Thank you Snowden.
OK, but Snowden, in fact, took your position with equally ineffective results (to date). The fact that we know, or at least have good cause to believe, that extra constitutional (yet possibly legal) actions were undertaken by Obama & Bush, et al, means that the ball is still not moving, but was firmly tossed into play to our congress critters. After observing no action (brief statements of outrage aside) being taken, by congress, on this matter tells us what we already knew - the federal gov't is now totally out of our control.
Because the ball wasn't thrown to them at all. The necessary committees already knew about it and approved it, the necessary judges found it constitutional, and the necessary operators found it worthy of executing.
Why would you expect that, when it's leaked, they change their mind? Because some random people don't like it?
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
That is the point which we now clearly see before us - a federal gov't totally unbound by the constitution:
http://www.constitution.org/us_doi.pdf
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