Drugs: we are looking at it all wrong. The problem is US.

[BabaVoss]

The Trump admin continues the same mistake many have made in looking at the problem of illegal drugs.
The recent problematic and apparently illegal destruction of a boat, allegedly bringing drugs to the US is just one example.
The problem of drugs is not that bad people in bad counties are sending drugs to the US.
The problem is that US citizens are BUYING THOSE DRUGS.
That is the problem we need to fix.
The US does very little to address mental illness.
The US does very little to address poverty.
These two things alone account for a great deal of illegal drugs use, but there are other drivers we are also ignoring.

We will NEVER stop the influx of illegal drugs as long as so many US citizens make up such a huge market for them.


.

 

[TangoNoCash]

The Trump admin continues the same mistake many have made in looking at the problem of illegal drugs.
The recent problematic and apparently illegal destruction of a boat, allegedly being drugs to the US is just one example.
The problem of drugs is not that bad people in bad counties are sending drugs to the US.
The problem is that US citizens are BUYING THOSE DRUGS.
That is the problem we need to fix.
The US does very little to address mental illness.
The US does very little to address poverty.
These two things alone account for a great deal of illegal drugs use, but there are other drivers we are also ignoring.

We will NEVER stop the influx if illegal drugs as long as so many US citizens make up such a huge market for them.


.

Been enjoying the failed drug war and its consequences since the early 80s. I don’t think we have the capacity to learn.

 

[BabaVoss]

Been enjoying the failed drug war and its consequences since the early 80s. I don’t think we have the capacity to learn.

All available evidence say you are right.

 

[aociswundumho]

Trump already knows all that.

 

[aociswundumho]

The problem is that US citizens are BUYING THOSE DRUGS.
That is the problem we need to fix.

People wanting to use drugs is not a "problem" to be fixed. What drugs I prefer to use is none of your business and none of the state's business.

 

[BabaVoss]

People wanting to use drugs is not a "problem" to be fixed. What drugs I prefer to use is none of your business and none of the state's business.

Illegal drugs is what i am talking about.

 

[Grand Mal]

Illegal drugs is what i am talking about.

There's two ways to end the trade in illegal drugs...
1- End the demand for illegal drugs
2_ Make the drugs legal

 

[The AntiDonald]

Trump already knows all that.

View attachment 67589322

A 1999 article hardly represents Trump's current views on things. Nowadays his actions are heavily influenced by The Heritage Foundation. I'm not even sure if he has any hard held beliefs. Why do you think his new nickname is TACO?

 

[BabaVoss]

There's two ways to end the trade in illegal drugs...
1- End the demand for illegal drugs
2_ Make the drugs legal

Agreed. But we are doing neither.

 

[Grand Mal]

Agreed. But we are doing neither.

It's an industry. Thousand of jobs, billions of dollars depend on the 'drug war' status quo. Hell, most of the inmates in the prisons are there because of the drug prohibition, one way or another.

 

[The AntiDonald]

People wanting to use drugs is not a "problem" to be fixed. What drugs I prefer to use is none of your business and none of the state's business.

Oh yes it is. Using hard core narcotics only feeds the engine that is America's drug problem. When I was much younger, I felt very strongly the same way you do. Watching all these young kids overdose changed my view.

 

[ataraxia]

People wanting to use drugs is not a "problem" to be fixed. What drugs I prefer to use is none of your business and none of the state's business.

It's not just a personal choice. It affects us all- profoundly. Living in a society where drugs are prevalent makes it a poor and dangerous environment for all of us. I have never heard of any drug addicts who are happy ultimately with their "decision" to be ensnared by drugs.

By addressing the root causes of poverty, mental illness, etc.... we can all live in a healthier, safer, more functional, and more prosperous society.

But libertarians have this misconception that they are an island and a rock, and the society in which they live has no bearing on them personally.

 

[aociswundumho]

It's not just a personal choice. It affects us all- profoundly.

Bullshit. After work today, I'm going to eat a chunk of cannabutter and get high as a kite. Go ahead - explain how that "profoundly" affects you. Spoiler: it doesn't.

Living in a society where drugs are prevalent makes it a poor and dangerous environment for all of us. I have never heard of any drug addicts who are happy ultimately with their "decision" to be ensnared by drugs.

No different from alcohol in that respect, or dozens of other bad habits.

By addressing the root causes of poverty, mental illness, etc.... we can all live in a healthier, safer, more functional, and more prosperous society.

The only thing that has ever eliminated mass poverty is capitalism, which you and every other leftist despises.

 

[aociswundumho]

People wanting to use drugs is not a "problem" to be fixed.

Oh yes it is.

Go ahead and explain how the state is going to "fix" my desire to use the drugs of my choice. Try doing it without sounding like a Nazi.

 

[ataraxia]

Bullshit. After work today, I'm going to eat a chunk of cannabutter and get high as a kite. Go ahead - explain how that "profoundly" affects you. Spoiler: it doesn't.

"Some of the ways substance abuse has affected society include:

• exacerbating or worsening mental health issues
• leading to premature deaths
• increasing violent crimes
• destroying families
• preventing addicted individuals from living productive lives

Substance abuse affects many more people than just the addicted individual, including their family members, neighbors, employers, and friends.

The inability of the addicted individual to live a healthy, full life is one of the most unfortunate ways substance abuse has affected society.

Substance abuse creates a range of consequences beyond impairing the individual.

The impact of substance abuse on the economy is vast, but can include the following:

• loss of productivity in employees
• absenteeism for health complication
• financial distress to fund the addiction
• loss of employment due to legal consequences
• increased criminal activity
• unexpected expenses for related health issues

A long-term issue with drug or alcohol use can leave addicted individuals feeling desperate to cover up their addiction issues and pressed to afford more drugs or alcohol.

The individual stress of living with addiction can be crippling and feeds into the overall impact of substance abuse on the economy."

The Impact Of Substance Abuse On Society - Addiction Resource

Prolonged drug and alcohol use alters brain function and can lead to harmful and destructive behaviors. Learn how to get help for substance abuse today.

www.addictionresource.net

 

[ataraxia]

Go ahead and explain how the state is going to "fix" my desire to use the drugs of my choice. Try doing it without sounding like a Nazi.

We are not islands living in isolation from the rest of our society. Many things we do often have profound effects on those around us. When your neighbor wants you to turn down your stereo at 3 am, is that being a Nazi?

 

[Fletch]

Oh yes it is. Using hard core narcotics only feeds the engine that is America's drug problem. When I was much younger, I felt very strongly the same way you do. Watching all these young kids overdose changed my view.

Yes, I actually agree with you. When I turned 18 I was allowed to drink. And what did my buddies and I do? We drank. Quite often. Had drugs been legal and had the bar I frequented had an opium den on one side and a crack house on the other, I would have checked them out. As it was, those things were illegal and I never tried them. I get the libertarian argument that people should be free to destroy themselves and that legalization would lead to less dangerous drugs and fewer deaths. That may or may not be true. The problem is that most addicts dont want to destroy themselves but arent strong enough to fight the addiction. Unless the addictive nature can be broken I dont see the virtue in increasing the number of people who use them

 

[The AntiDonald]

Go ahead and explain how the state is going to "fix" my desire to use the drugs of my choice. Try doing it without sounding like a Nazi.

Sure. If they irradicate the flow of drugs, your desire will fade away eventually. If you need your drug of choice that bad, they have inpatient treatment programs you can enroll in.

 

[Visbek]

We will NEVER stop the influx of illegal drugs as long as so many US citizens make up such a huge market for them.

Actually... the market for many of those illegal drugs, aside from cannabis (which is legal for most Americans now) may not be as big as you think.

The 2020 National Survey on Drug Use and Health asked people 12 and older if they had done certain drugs in the past 30 days. The "yes" responses were:

Alcohol - 138 million
Tobacco - 51m
Cannabis - 33m

Cocaine - 2m
Meth - 1.7m
Heroin - 0.5m

I.e. Heroin users are around 0.14% of the US population.

Even if those numbers are an undercount, it seems that the number of people buying hard-core drugs like cocaine, meth and heroin is actually a small part of the US population.

Maybe, just maybe, prohibition is a bit more effective than we realize.

The real problem lately, and why things probably seem worse now, is that the influx of fentanyl is killing more drug users than in the past. But the number of deaths from overdoses does not mean more people are taking those drugs than before. They're just exposed to a far more deadly variation, often without knowing it.

My guess is that a lot of the work is simply because using these addictive drugs is generally not socially acceptable. Law enforcement interdiction is probably doing a fair chunk of the work as well, though it is probably less effective, more expensive, and more disruptive than treatment -- especially medication assisted treatment (MAT). But there will be a certain percentage of the population that is highly motivated to avoid both jail and treatment....

 

[element94]

The Trump admin continues the same mistake many have made in looking at the problem of illegal drugs.
The recent problematic and apparently illegal destruction of a boat, allegedly bringing drugs to the US is just one example.
The problem of drugs is not that bad people in bad counties are sending drugs to the US.
The problem is that US citizens are BUYING THOSE DRUGS.
That is the problem we need to fix.
The US does very little to address mental illness.
The US does very little to address poverty.
These two things alone account for a great deal of illegal drugs use, but there are other drivers we are also ignoring.

We will NEVER stop the influx of illegal drugs as long as so many US citizens make up such a huge market for them.


.

The ugly Americans will have what they want.
Surprising there isn't more talk here about Donald Trump's first mass murder. That there is a question about Terrorump's inability to get the details right prove it's the act that counts for his drooling masses. Bunch of criminals, one and all.

 

[madman]

The Trump admin continues the same mistake many have made in looking at the problem of illegal drugs.
The recent problematic and apparently illegal destruction of a boat, allegedly bringing drugs to the US is just one example.
The problem of drugs is not that bad people in bad counties are sending drugs to the US.
The problem is that US citizens are BUYING THOSE DRUGS.
That is the problem we need to fix.
The US does very little to address mental illness.
The US does very little to address poverty.
These two things alone account for a great deal of illegal drugs use, but there are other drivers we are also ignoring.

We will NEVER stop the influx of illegal drugs as long as so many US citizens make up such a huge market for them.


.

BTW, in just 2 weeks, trump will make a decision
LOL

 

[madman]

A 1999 article hardly represents Trump's current views on things. Nowadays his actions are heavily influenced by The Heritage Foundation. I'm not even sure if he has any hard held beliefs. Why do you think his new nickname is TACO?

and I can see that his grammar has not improved as well.

 

[madman]

Go ahead and explain how the state is going to "fix" my desire to use the drugs of my choice. Try doing it without sounding like a Nazi.

you cant trust people to be responsible. And when that happens, it affects everyone. hell, look at the alcohol issues we have.

 

[BabaVoss]

Bullshit. After work today, I'm going to eat a chunk of cannabutter and get high as a kite. Go ahead - explain how that "profoundly" affects you. Spoiler: it doesn't.

That depends. Is it legal where you live?

No different from alcohol in that respect, or dozens of other bad habits.

Alcohol is legal. This thread is about illegal drugs, and the requisite crime tax comes with their use.

The only thing that has ever eliminated mass poverty is capitalism...

When did capitalism ever eliminate poverty?

which you and every other leftist despises.

I am decidedly left on most issues, but I am an active participant in capitalism. and am grateful for its many benefits. Sounds like you don't actually know any "leftists", or if you do aren't listening to what they say.

.

 

[aociswundumho]

you cant trust people to be responsible. And when that happens, it affects everyone. hell, look at the alcohol issues we have.

So do you support alcohol prohibition?