• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Driver accused of plowing into crowd at Charlottesville rally charged with federal hate crimes

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

Lead or get out of the way
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
112,229
Reaction score
102,437
Location
Barsoom
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Driver accused of plowing into crowd at Charlottesville rally charged with federal hate crimes

636383355713195553-USP-News--Charlottesville-Rally-Aftermath.6.jpg

The spot in Charlottesville where Heather Heyer was killed by James Alex Fields Jr.

6/27/18
A federal grand jury in Virginia indicted an Ohio man Wednesday with federal hate crimes in the death of a woman run down by a car after a "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville last summer. James Alex Fields Jr., 21, of Maumee, Ohio, had already been charged in state court in connection with the death of Heather Heyer for allegedly ramming his car into a group of counter-protesters. Heyer was killed the last day of the August weekend rally organized by white supremacists and their sympathizers protesting the removal of Robert E. Lee's statue from a Charlottesville park. The highly publicized event drew supporters and counter-protesters to the university town in central Virginia.

Fields was indicted on one federal count of a hate crime resulting in Heyer's death, 28 counts of hate crimes for causing bodily injury and involving an attempt to kill and one count of racially motivated violent interference with a federally protected activity. The grand jury was sitting in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Virginia in Charlottesville. In January, Fields was charged by a state court with first-degree murder among other crimes for which he will be tried in November. Shortly after the incident, President Donald Trump weighed in. "I think there is blame on both sides," Trump told reporters.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Trump will pardon this pos.

Related: Charlottesville driver Alex Fields Jr. faces hate crime charges one year after rally
 
Rogue Valley said:
Driver accused of plowing into crowd at Charlottesville rally charged with federal hate crimes

636383355713195553-USP-News--Charlottesville-Rally-Aftermath.6.jpg

The spot in Charlottesville where Heather Heyer was killed by James Alex Fields Jr.



I wonder if Trump will pardon this pos.

Related: Charlottesville driver Alex Fields Jr. faces hate crime charges one year after rally
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of laws that make thought a crime - hate crimes are thought crimes and I don't agree with prosecuting a person based on what we think he may have been thinking. However, intent matters. This POS needs to be made an example so that other POS out there think twice before acting similarly. Multiple counts of attempted murder and assault with a vehicle, and then let the feds go after him for civil rights violations for each person that was injured or even near by and was threatened. Put his ass in jail, for ever. He has no redeeming value to society, and our society should be protected from scum like that guy.

As to your question about Trump, I seriously doubt he would even consider such a thing. He has the power to do so, but it would be the the absolute worst choice he could ever make, and that's saying a lot given his other choices he's made so far.
 
Beaudreaux said:
As to your question about Trump, I seriously doubt he would even consider such a thing. He has the power to do so, but it would be the the absolute worst choice he could ever make, and that's saying a lot given his other choices he's made so far.
Click to expand...

IMHO, Trump has made a ton of bad choices in the past 2 years. The latest fiasco being to incarcerate Central American children. He then compounded that debacle with the suggestion to deny due process to any detained persons seeking asylum.

I personally have doubts that Trump even has an ethical no-go zone.
 
Rogue Valley said:
IMHO, Trump has made a ton of bad choices in the past 2 years. The latest fiasco being to incarcerate Central American children. He then compounded that debacle with the suggestion to deny due process to any detained persons seeking asylum.

I personally have doubts that Trump even has an ethical no-go zone.
Click to expand...

Your last sentence is probably dead on accurate - there is no ethical no-go zone.

As for the potential for a pardon for this scumbag, I would hope that even Trump would not go there, not even to talk about it. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up on his twitter account.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I'm not a fan of laws that make thought a crime - hate crimes are thought crimes and I don't agree with prosecuting a person based on what we think he may have been thinking. However, intent matters. This POS needs to be made an example so that other POS out there think twice before acting similarly. Multiple counts of attempted murder and assault with a vehicle, and then let the feds go after him for civil rights violations for each person that was injured or even near by and was threatened. Put his ass in jail, for ever. He has no redeeming value to society, and our society should be protected from scum like that guy.

As to your question about Trump, I seriously doubt he would even consider such a thing. He has the power to do so, but it would be the the absolute worst choice he could ever make, and that's saying a lot given his other choices he's made so far.
Click to expand...

I disagree, people who have hate in their hearts and minds can not be charged with a hate crime, only if you do something out of obvious hatred like this driving into a crowd of counter protestors, you go beyond something being a thought crime. Now you are committing an actual physical chargeable crime out of racist motives and that is something where it is not the thought of hatred that is being prosecuted but the actions out of hatred that are being prosecuted.

To have a thought crime that is chargeable, the feds would have to be able to read your mind, that is a thought crime, something that purely exists in your mind. Hate crimes are not thought crimes, they are actual criminal offenses born out of hate towards blacks/jews/muslims.
 
45 was quick to condemn the same type of attacks when they occurred in Europe and other countries. Fields, when told to be careful on his trip replied "We're not the ones who need to be careful." One can only hope he will not pardon, commute or appeal for clemency. However, we can't be sure he won't intervene in this case.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I'm not a fan of laws that make thought a crime - hate crimes are thought crimes and I don't agree with prosecuting a person based on what we think he may have been thinking. However, intent matters. This POS needs to be made an example so that other POS out there think twice before acting similarly. Multiple counts of attempted murder and assault with a vehicle, and then let the feds go after him for civil rights violations for each person that was injured or even near by and was threatened. Put his ass in jail, for ever. He has no redeeming value to society, and our society should be protected from scum like that guy.

As to your question about Trump, I seriously doubt he would even consider such a thing. He has the power to do so, but it would be the the absolute worst choice he could ever make, and that's saying a lot given his other choices he's made so far.
Click to expand...

It's not really fundamentally any different from any other crime that takes account of "intent".

We distinguish between degrees of murder and manslaughter in part on intent. We distinguish between assault, assault with intent to rape, and assault with intent to murder based on the intent. Those are just a few examples.

The intent here is simply to hurt person of X protect class rather than to do specific thing to a person (but fail). But it's still ultimately punishing a crime done with a very bad intent, more seriously than a crime done with merely a bad intent, etc.

And, bear in mind, the state still has to prove that intent. They'll typically present evidence like the fact that a defendant was screaming "n******" as he beat a black person, or perhaps he put up a facebook post about how he's going to go kill some Jews before attacking people wearing kippahs.





Anyway, it may not matter much in this case if it's multiple counts of attempted murder.
 
If nothing else it will be interesting to follow the federal trial to see if they can prove he hated anybody.
 
Ya this dude definitely didnt drive through the crowd in self defense like i first thought (mob swarms his car and starts hitting his car, so he drives out)

You can hear him rev the engine and slam through the people as fast as he could at an insane speed.

Dude needs death penalty or life in prison.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom