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None of that is opinion.
He didn't say they have spirit. No matter how many times you make that assertion, it will remain false.
The living part of anything, plants, animals, humans, is spirit. Just as our physical bodies are matter, the spirit is a form of matter. All matter is eternal, whether lifeless matter that we can see with our natural eyes, or living light of the spirit. Death is a separation of the spirit from the body. Resurrection is the re-uniting of the matter that makes up the physical body and the spirit matter in perfection, for eternity. That is plants, animals, humans, the earth, etc. All will be resurrected.
You've mistaken sensible caring, empathy, and utmost consideration for "weakness."
Some children had grown deep attachments to pets, therefore one can just imagine the sense of loss.
Being brutally frank to a very young child is not only quite insensitively uncaring - it's downright, cruel.
There are realities in life that you just don't go about brutally spilling to a child. They will learn about life's painful realities soon enough.....but in the mean time, it is best to have them enjoy their short bliss of innocence.
All children are not the same. It depends on their maturity.
Should we be frank and honest, and say to a 5 year-old for example: well, your dad didn't want to have a baby. He wanted to get rid of you - abortion or give you away to someone else - but your mom stood her ground. That's why your dad is drinking quite heavily and hardly spends any time with you. He's not ready to face the responsibility of being a daddy. That's why he decided to get a divorce and live somewhere else.
How can it be a lie when no one knows exactly if animals have an afterlife? The Bible didn't say much about their fate, but they have a value in God's eyes. Perhaps we need not know what becomes of them since we (who are created in the image of God) has to worry and focus about our own salvation. The Bible is focused on the salvation of Man.
However, we are likened to animals:
Ecclesiastes 3:18
18 I said in my heart, “Concerning the condition of the sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.”
The result of earthly death is the same for man and animals. Equal in death.
Ecclesiastes 3
19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust.
As the verse by Solomon indicate, animals have spirit. Therefore, we cannot say for certain that there is no doggie "heaven,"
Ecclesiastes 3
21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?
In other words, you'll ignore the supporting evidences that were given. That means as far as you're concerned, there's no discussing this.
Bye-bye.
You want to be quoting Ecclesiastes when it comes to life after Death????
Ecclesiastes 9:
4 But whoever is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion. 5 The living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no more reward, and even the memory of them is lost. 6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished; never again will they have any share in all that happens under the sun.
7 Go, eat your bread with enjoyment, and drink your wine with a merry heart; for God has long ago approved what you do. 8 Let your garments always be white; do not let oil be lacking on your head. 9 Enjoy life with the wife whom you love, all the days of your vain life that are given you under the sun, because that is your portion in life and in your toil at which you toil under the sun. 10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with your might; for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.
Solomon's point is after Death for man and animal, there IS no life, you don't go to heaven (thus the need for ressurection).
Correct. Dogs have a material soul which expires upon their death.
I haven't read the whole thread but there must be horses in heaven:
From Revelation 19: 11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
Don't you think that the specifics (riding on a horse) are metaphorical. Why does God coming in the fullness of his glory need a horse?
Don't you think that the specifics (riding on a horse) are metaphorical. Why does God coming in the fullness of his glory need a horse?
I did not quote Ecclesiastes about life after death.
I quoted Ecclesiastes to show that man is likened to animals, that man and animals are equal in death:
they turn to dust.
I quoted Ecclesiastes to show that it is mentioned animals do have spirits.
I think it's remarkably arrogant, extremely egotistical, and outstandingly ignorant for someone to imply that they truly know the answer to questions/statements like the one in the OP.
A white horse was always the sign of a victor in the ancient world. I doubt it's metaphorical.
Horses going in and out of heaven have been prophesied several times. Horses are also normally used for battles.....and we know that God has His army.
Joel 2:11
The LORD thunders at the head of his army; his forces are beyond number, and mighty is the army that obeys his command. The day of the LORD is great; it is dreadful. Who can endure it?
So, I don't think this is metaphorical.
2 Kings 2:11
11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
2 Kings 6
17 And Elisha prayed, “Open his eyes, Lord, so that he may see.” Then the Lord opened the servant’s eyes, and he looked and saw the hills full of horses and chariots of fire all around Elisha.
Revelation 6
The Seals
6 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, “Come!” 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, “Come!” 4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make people kill each other. To him was given a large sword.
5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds[a] of wheat for a day’s wages, and six pounds[c] of barley for a day’s wages,[d] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”
Zechariah 1
The Man Among the Myrtle Trees
7 On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, the month of Shebat, in the second year of Darius, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Zechariah son of Berekiah, the son of Iddo.
8 During the night I had a vision, and there before me was a man mounted on a red horse. He was standing among the myrtle trees in a ravine. Behind him were red, brown and white horses.
9 I asked, “What are these, my lord?”
The angel who was talking with me answered, “I will show you what they are.”
10 Then the man standing among the myrtle trees explained, “They are the ones the Lord has sent to go throughout the earth.”
Even this dog?
I think it's remarkably arrogant, extremely egotistical, and outstandingly ignorant for someone to imply that they truly know the answer to questions/statements like the one in the OP.
How often do we hear religious people say that we as humans don't know (and never will until we get to heaven) what and why god does certain things, yet in some cases they'll insist they know exactly what and why god does certain things???
If some people would include the phrase "it's my personal belief" they'd come across as being more genuine.
For someone to emphatically declare "this is how it is" shows a complete disconnect from reality, and torpedoes the entire premise of their argument.
Nobody knows, least of all an arrogant human.
Do dogs go to heaven? If they don't, then they must go to a place far better, and far more enlightened.
Dogs are meant to die. They're like flowers, except they bark and don't smell as good. So when you bury them in your garden, don't lie to your children. Please.That's a lie, that weak people tell their children.
I can't believe someone resurrected this old thread and that now people are actually seriously arguing about it. :lamo
You can thank Paleocon (are you shocked). He's been on quite a thread resurrection frenzy over the past week or two.
Where's your proof?
Until we see it, I'll ignore you.
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