I agree with you on almost every point here with the exception of Lincoln's motivations. I don't think Lincoln was as dedicated to the whole country as much as he was dedicated to Northern industrial interests. The tariffs he pushed on the South to help prop up Northern prosperity almost speak of a contempt for the Southern states.
However, you are spot on in your assessment that slavery was a secondary issue to the war.
I'm curious, do you know how much was the increase on the tariffs? They had been in place and decreasing since 1816. I haven't found how much the increase was.
Umm, because its a BS argument.
You are classifying me as something I am not because Stormfront happens to agree with me on a thing or two.
Your argument is crap, there is no way to 'respond' to someone attempting to accuse you of being "more likely to be something that I will not be"
Your pompous attitude is ridiculous.
First, no, sorry...not going to give any additional hits to the filth peddler that is stormfront nor am I going to go into the links on a work computer.
Second, whether or not people on stormfront are saying similiar things is relatively irrelevant and doesn't prove anything other than some may share broad line views with each other which speaks nothing to their motivations behind said views or the extent they think it should go to fix it as is the implication by him.
This is like saying that we should quote Osama Bin Laden and other Al-Qaeda members whenever someone said we should pull out of Iraq early or end the War on Terrorism or criticize Israel because obviously if they're saying the same things as terrorists we need to highlight it...I mean, for completely legitimate reasons that are in no way trying to imply that by making similar arguments that the people must be similar in all things.
Or perhaps it needs to be put in terms that actually affects you to realize why its an idiotic and rather transparently dishonest debate tactic. We could always shove it into an Israel thread where you and others are advocating for Israel to give its land over to the Palestinians and show where terrorists have said similar things.
You see, it's not an incidental correlation, but a matter of shared axiomatic values. It's the difference between "[Person X] dislike rock music; they must have something in common with the terrorist shooting at the Men over in Iraq and Afghanistan" and "[Person X] advocates Israel simply giving its land over to the Palestinians; they must have something in common with the terrorist shooting at the Men over in Iraq and Afghanistan."
I'm not pointing out that they share the same favorite color; I'm pointing out that they share a lot of the same rhetoric based on your mutually shared axiomatic values. I'm also not saying that [person x] is a terrorist, but that they're more inclined to become one of those people shooting at our Men over in Iraq and Afghanistan than to become a Tea Party member.
:roll:
Its an invalid tactic meant to do nothing but smear and discredit through associated views
Conservatives...apply the Strict Father model of parenting to the Nation as Family metaphor. To them, social programs amount to coddling people - spoiling them. Instead of having to learn to fend for themselves, people can depend on the public cole. This makes them morally weak, removing the need for self-discipline and willpower. Such moral weakness is a form of immorality. And so, conservatives see social programs as immoral, affirmative action included.
For myself, personally, I can't stand the current welfare system (mixed with Affirmative Action.) All a Black person has to do is become pregnant to get welfare, but my own step-mother was denied welfare at one point in her life, and she had two kids of her own. It was because she was White. In other aspects of the welfare system, I can't stand. A large proportion of the people on welfare (which is, again, mostly black in itself) are using money that the government gives them to go out and buy a dime back of rock instead of providing for their children. These children, unguided by their parents, are the current young Black generation. A lot of them act like thugs, a lot are involved in crime, a lot have hatred and jealousy for White's who have never laid a finger on them, and this could all be solved by a few, easy measures.
* Mandatory drug testing. If you test positive, you lose your money and your kids. None of that government paid recovery and treatment bull-crap, you find out the hard way. One strike, you're out.
* Eliminating racial quotas for welfare, but enforcing a strict rule that illegal immigrants are not allowed to receive welfare.
* There needs to be a maximum amount of time for being on welfare. It's understandable if you have a disability and will be dependent on welfare for your life, that I can live with. But have you guys seen the movie Precious? That mother sat on the couch all day, beat her daughter, even let her husband rape the daughter, and pretended to be looking for a job. It's a crooked system, and people will take advantage of it. 2 years in your lifetime should be sufficient, and I don't mean consecutively. That's 24 months of your life where the government will send you a check, enough to supply food and water and appliances.
* Convicted Felons will not be allowed to have welfare.
* Government agents on your behind, 24/7. They will walk you into Burger King to get a job if they have to.
I know this sounds like a lot of government interference, but welfare will never be abolished, and it's better to make reforms that will better all of America.
Many of the clauses in the Moral Order correspond to forms of bigotry:
The racist clause: Since the dominant culture has been white, whites rank above nonwhites.
The anti-Semitic clause: Since the dominant culture is Christian, Christians rank above Jews.
The jingoist clause: Since this is an American culture where people born here have more power and status than immigrants, those born American rank above immigrants.
The homophobe clause: Since heterosexuality is dominant in our culture and homosexuals are stereotyped as weak, heterosexuals rank above homosexuals.
The superpatriot clause: Since America is the dominant country (the only superpower), America ranks above other countries.
If your conceptual system contains the Moral Order metaphor, as it will if you accept Strict Father morality, then your conceptual system contains the framework into which such clauses could fit; and indeed, historically those clauses were present in the conceptual frameworks of many Americans. There was a time when they were all as American as apple pie. Many Americans have since dropped them, though they are still very much present for many others.
It is important to bear in mind that these define a "moral order." Those higher in the moral order are "better" and have a moral authority over those lower in the hierarchy. So, for instance, if all these clauses are in your hierarchy, and if you happen to be a heterosexual white Christian American man, you are "better" than most people in the world.
Employed White Males were the original American protesters, rabble-rousers, and revolutionaries, who understood the necessity of collective action to secure their freedoms. When the British began to levy arbitrarily higher taxes on their North American colonies, the progenitors of this species - whose professions ranged from lawyers to judges to businessmen, merchants, shippers, land and securities speculators, farmers, scientists, physicians, and ministers - organized together to form a nation based on the inalienable rights of man. In a letter to his wife, Abigail, John Adams spoke of his future Employed White Male descendants: "I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy." And his descendants proceeded to do just that, building the most industrious and wealthy nation on the planet, earning the envy and scorn of the rest of the world.
As the leftist philosophies of nihilism and relativism began to dominate the late twentieth century, the undeniable achievements of the Employed White Males enraged feminists, Communists, and Islamic fundamentalists everywhere. Bound by the myopic view of cultural egalitarianism, the left insisted that Employed White Males not only did not contribute anything special to civilization, but in fact have caused more damage to the world than all other groups combined. And thus the Employed White Male was blamed for racism, pollution, world poverty, oppression, and every other wrong in the world. Today, he quietly carries this burden, too innocent to fully understand or be bothered by the contempt for his achievements.
Good Lord, that's a piss-poor analogy. You really can't do any better?
Actually it was spot on. The sad thing is you are too vested in your attempt to smear and vilify others that you can't see how foolish you are being made to look.
Then why don't you debate the content, as I did, instead of just contradicting and attacking and leaving it at that?
There's not much else to add to what Zyphlin said. I voiced my aggreement with him and my support of what he posted. I could have done it with just the thanks button but it also deserved a blunt condemnation of the tactics you've utilized. :shrug:
There's not much else to add to what Zyphlin said. I voiced my aggreement with him and my support of what he posted. I could have done it with just the thanks button but it also deserved a blunt condemnation of the tactics you've utilized. :shrug:
Zyphlin said nothing to my most recent attempt to refute him, since he's not here at the moment. I'm just pointing out that your "blunt condemnation" is pretty worthless, since it's a low-ranking form on the disagreement hierarchy.
It's a contradiction, and a response to tone. You should try to refute the central point instead, if you think you're up for it.
After poking around in some other threads, I realize he does this IN EVERY THREAD he posts in.
He is fascinated with Stormfront, and gives everyone a chance to see their views right here on DP.
Not really interested in your false comparisons of people to stormfront.
And your little pyramid really has no effect on me nor does is sway my condemnation of your tactics. :shrug:
If that were true, you wouldn't have dropped in with your useless little one-liners.
I know. That's because you didn't have an argument to begin with and don't have one now.
I thought I made clearly that I was voicing agreement with Zyphlin's argument and merely condemnation of your tactics...
Your little pyramid crap wasn't an argument either. It was simply a visual aid you used to affirm your pompously inflated view of your own abilities and that is why it will not sway me.
Go tell it to stormfront or something. No one here is buying the bull**** you are peddling.
And "I agree" isn't an argument,
Are having trouble reading or something?
You is bad grammar? :shrug:
Oh, you caught me in a typo. Wanna add that to your little pyramid or you wanna link it, too, next time you decide to spambot the forum with stormfront links?
I didn't care about the typo. I thought it was funny that you would use improper grammar while trying to mock my reading abilities. But regardless, we're apparently in agreement that since your comment was not an argument or refutation, it was a worthless space consumer.
Except that it highlighted what appears to be a common sentiment concerning the deplorable tactics you attempted to use.
And as such, it was a criticism of tone and a contradiction, and not an argument,
Yes, we covered that
I know. And I'm glad you agree. You were even gracious enough to reverse your claim that you weren't interested in the topic by making numerous posts in response to me.
I never said I wasnt interested in the thread topic. I said I wasn't interested in your fascination with stormfront.
And if you take the time to read, I have offered no meaningful conversation
Anyone who watches NASCAR
I'm glad to hear that the whining about the "deplorable tactics" was unrelated, in that case. Thanks for clarifying that.
You didn't need to go past that.
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