This wasn't a EU membership deal, it was a free trade agreement that would help the Ukrainian economy a great deal. Having access to a rich 500mil people market is a pretty big deal you know.
Strangely, Russia is giving Yanukovich the cold shoulder. I would have agreed with you about them defending "the legitimate government", but for that. It is interesting, their game.
Obviously (I provided the citation, ya know), and they were never even close to that. There was never any real likelihood of Ukraine joining the EU, they couldn't even qualify for trade agreements.
They did qualify for trade agreement. That meeting in Vilnius was to sign a trade agreement that Yanukovych turned down.
Does the situation in Ukraine worry you?
Re-read the citation I provided.
Ok. I read it the first time. Quit shoving it in my face like it means anything that counters my statements. It doesn't.In 2012, the EU signed deals on free trade and political association with Ukraine; however EU leaders have stated that these agreements will not be ratified unless Ukraine addresses concerns over a "stark deterioration of democracy and the rule of law", including the imprisonment of Yulia Tymoshenko and Yuriy Lutsenko in 2011 and 2012.[2][3][4][nb 1] On 25 February 2013, the EU set a three-month deadline for Ukraine to carry out the required changes to its justice and electoral systems in order to enable the formal signing of their agreements with the EU in Vilnius on 29 November 2013.[6]
Membership prospects[edit]
On 27 February 2014 the European Parliament passed a resolution that recognized Ukraine's right to "apply to become a Member of the Union, provided that it adheres to the principles of democracy, respects fundamental freedoms and human and minority rights, and ensures the rule of law".[
I'm concerned that the people in Ukraine are going to have to endure a civil war with Russian intervention. Also, I'm concerned that the world will look to us to fix it while doing nothing itself. It will use that savings to provide health care and infrastructure to its citizens, while our own infrastructure is crumbling.
Here's the solution :
1. Crimea aligns with Russia. Let them go.
2. If the world wants an army, it needs to build and fund one.
3. Obama shouldn't be giving ultimatums to Russia. A Mexican civil war would be on us, and Russia would have no role. This one is on the EU.
In other words, EU, it's your turn.
I could see Putin as the Russian Godfather.
Oooh, a "right to apply"!
Ukraine was never close to satisfying the requirements.
When Bulgaria and Romania started considering joining the EU, they weren't close to satisfying those requirements too. It took 4-5 years of hard work and reform to get there, but they did. It doesn't mean there aren't still problems, but the progress is visible.
And the EU has been burned by letting in too many borderline developed countries.
To what are you referring, exactly?:lol: yeah? How much did that help Estonia?
Actually, the West massively supported the opposition movement aka "Orange Revolution" in 2004 and now again the now successful protests, because these protesters mainly located in west Ukraine are pro-Western.
The east Ukrainians, on the other hand, mostly speak and feel Russian and are pro-Russian. The now ousted former president Yanukovich belonged to that camp. He was about giving up treaties with the West/EU and embrace Russia, which is what caused the opposition uprising this time.
The uprising in Ukraine is hardly neo-Nazi or fascist, just one of the three opposition parties involved in the protests is, and the smallest at that. The two other major opposition (now governing) parties are somewhat moderate, but pro-Western.
So the West has been and will probably continue supporting these pro-Western parties, even though an extreme right radical party is among them, while Russia will continue to support the pro-Russian toppled party, in classic proxy-war fashion.
What worries me is the possibility of allowing Russia to invade another nation and oppress those people into a pro-Russian/soviet style government. If Russia gets involved then the rest of the world should as well to stop them.
To what are you referring, exactly?
I'm concerned that the people in Ukraine are going to have to endure a civil war with Russian intervention. Also, I'm concerned that the world will look to us to fix it while doing nothing itself. It will use that savings to provide health care and infrastructure to its citizens, while our own infrastructure is crumbling.
Here's the solution :
1. Crimea aligns with Russia. Let them go.
2. If the world wants an army, it needs to build and fund one.
3. Obama shouldn't be giving ultimatums to Russia. A Mexican civil war would be on us, and Russia would have no role. This one is on the EU.
In other words, EU, it's your turn.
Even the experts couldn't pin that on Russia - including DARPA's own security consultant. Most experts believe it was NOT directed by the Russian government and there's certainly no proof of such involvement. It's a fact that at least one of the people involved was Estonian and it's likely that more Estonians were involved as well as private citizens of Russia. Private hackers all over the world get involved in politics and have for decades.Estonia took down a statue of a Russian Soldier, left there by the Soviets after WWII. The Soviets said the statue was supposed to stay there to remind the Estonians of their liberation, apparently the Estonians mostly remembered the mass-rapes. Russia's response was to launch a cyber attack that basically shut down the country. NATO's response was to say "Gosh, that's really awful. Man. Someone should do something about that...."
I'm not playing down the gravity of the situation (as far as it goes), but don't expect any countdown to global annihilation. This isn't the Cuban missile crisis. The only time WW3 looks set to kick off is where superpowers face off directly. That won't happen over bum**** Ukraine. Nobody's 'ending the world' over this nappy BS. You need a little perspective. I'm guessing you probably succumbed to the hysteria over Iran and North Korea, too. Look what happened. Not one thing. We're all still breathing. Imagine that.
Don't waste your time sweating bullets about silly Armageddon scenarios. Worry about the fiscal deficit. Education, health care, the environment and trade. Stuff like that. Leave the placard-carrying doomsayers to their own devices. They like that ****. You don't have to follow suit. It's one small step from unfounded, reactionary hysteria to believing Kris Kristofferson drinks blood and shape shifts into a 7' lizard. Tread lightly, dude.
Each one of those has a different geopolitical circumstance. You are essentially claiming a slippery slope, which in order to be valid, would require for there to be nothing to differentiate them. I can tell you, I would certainly never advocate allowing their grabbing of East Germany. Among other things, with them we actually do have a defense treaty, unlike Ukraine. (The agreement with Ukraine is not a defense treaty).
It is my view that Russia should have never permitted the departure of Ukraine without a partition. It makes no sense whatsoever for majority people aligned with Russia to be in a country that would potentially look to the West. And Crimea should be part of Russia without question, except for one brief aberration of history.
I believe Russia may seek partition. But for their agreement with us, the UK and Ukraine, military intervention to achieve it would even have some legitimacy, depending on the territories they seek.
So, nope, don't see the slippery slope that you do.
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