- Joined
- Jun 10, 2009
- Messages
- 27,254
- Reaction score
- 9,350
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Liberal
You keep ignoring what OWS actually says.
What is very telling about OWS is their insistence that OWS is copying Egypt's Tahrir Square. Hence the common OWS slogan "Are you ready for a Tahrir moment?" That could only mean one thing that OWS expects the US Government to fold under the pressure of OWS. OWS does not want to just get people talking about economics and social structure. They want us to believe that the US Government is so corrupt that it is a lost cause.
View attachment 67119167
ANd they do boldly offer a solution of sorts: "the only solution is WorldRevolution" That is a very closed minded opinion.
Speaking of Revolution here is a site created by and OWS: Guide for Demonstrators | How to camp for a global revolution
What an odd list for an non-violent movement. Perhaps Anarchists may be just one element of OWS, but they are leading OWS.
And again I must point out that Hitler was representing the people/99% of Germany as well.
None of that is officially connected to the OWS movement, but nice try!
Rev - you and I do not agree about politics - but that is one beautiful grill island you have there.
but Cat, the opposition so NEEDS a tangible entity to hate
and an identifiable head of that entity to rail against
as well as a stated platform to ridicule
all because they realize they are unable to make any sense of their reich wing, teabagging dogma
while history has proven them wrong and misguided
None of that is officially connected to the OWS movement, but nice try!
To be expected from a "very conservative"..My guess is they represent the radicals, economic failures, welfare beggars and full fledged libtards that comprise 25 - 30% of the population. Their message is just as confusing and illiterate as the messages we get from the group I described. I really do hope they come back in the fall of next year and start up the same stupid ship they just ended. They are the gift that keeps on giving.
You don't see the hypocricy in your post, do you?
but Cat, the opposition so NEEDS a tangible entity to hate
and an identifiable head of that entity to rail against
as well as a stated platform to ridicule
all because they realize they are unable to make any sense of their reich wing, teabagging dogma
while history has proven them wrong and misguided
no. please point it out
duh said:but Cat, the opposition so NEEDS a tangible entity to hate
and an identifiable head of that entity to rail against
as well as a stated platform to ridicule
all because they realize they are unable to make any sense of their reich wing, teabagging dogma
while history has proven them wrong and misguided
those who rail against the Occupy movement as well as the citizens who choose to participate in and advocate itPlease explain who you believe to be the opposition.
notice also that this thread is not about you. it does not matter what your professed lean might beNotice that I am an Independent not an Conservative.
good to know [/s]. share with us the characteristics you have identified which allows the Occupy movement and ALL of its participants to automatically be found to exhibit/possess a left leanI do not subscribe to right wing politics in some dogmatic chest thumbing rut. I like to think outside of the box, yet I can observe the obvious Leftist push in the occupy movement.
really? you believe that a movement can have no impact unless it comprises a majority of our citizens as its cohort. my opinion differs. and my opinion will be borne out by observing a history in which a minority movement can impact governanceUntil the occupy movement can prove itself as an majority movement it is only a distraction not a focus.
left or right doesn't matter to me. but i must confess a very low tolerance for stupidLike or hate the Right (in your case hate) they will not just disappear off the face of the earth just because the Left hates them.
in bold font you will find the portion of your argument which is found to be flawedI have asked many OWS supporters what they intend to do with non Left leaning Americans if they succeed. Not one has even attempted to answer that honest question. I am not on the Right but if so much hate for the Right is the basis of the occupy movement then I must assume that their tolerances for diverse thinkers like myself is just as intolerant.
again, that is beyond a bogus question. the Occupy movement seeks fairness and a level economic playing field. only if that outcome would somehow be found in opposition to non-left leaning Americans would it potentially be to their detriment. i can think of no possible instance, but since you are the one with the vivid imagination, i shall leave that for you to ponderSo I formally challenge OWS supporters to share with us what the plans are for non-Left leaning Americans in your Revolution?
Occupy is a grassroots collection of citizens. can you imagine a scenario where they could outlaw an opposing perspective with the Constitution intact. i can't but again, with your imagination, have at it and please share your conclusions with usWill you outlaw everything but your point of view?
wow. actually it is 99% plus. we have members of the 1% like Warren Buffett who advocate some of the same views as the Occupy movement. and those who are in the 99% are in it by virtue of their financial standing. it has nothing to do with an arbitrary or subjective basis. and i am quite certain that there are a number who are not left leaning who are not also among the 1% .... which thus places them among the 99%. they may not value the Occupy movement, but they are part of the group the Occupy movement seeks to speak out for. do you have a problem with that? rhetorical question, actually, because i have put too much time and effort responding to this mostly nonsensical post, of one who insists they don't have a political lean while advocating for a right wing positionOWS does not equal the 99% they do not speak for the entire 99%. Asserting that OWS speaks in behalf of the 99% ignores the reality that the occupy movement is entirely an Left modeled movement that not only ignores every American that is not on the Left but encourages hate against us.
read it again slowly.
it appears you are unable to point it out
just wave the white flag of surrender
brother. i am SO sorryLet those who have eyes see.
I seems to me that he was pointing out the Rev's talk of "reigh wing" hatred and then working himself up to a frenzy to spew hate himself.You don't see the hypocricy in your post, do you?
brother. i am SO sorry
i did not realize you were blind
THAT explains why you are unable to point out the hypocrisy you insist was present in my post
i made my posts that you were without the ability to articulate your claim under the assumption you could actually read what was posted and thus respond by pointing out out to us what portions of what was stated should actually be found hypocritical, and why. your blindness explains that inability and i genuinely apologize for not knowing of your lack of sightedness [/s]
but Cat, the opposition so NEEDS a tangible entity to hate
and an identifiable head of that entity to rail against
as well as a stated platform to ridicule
all because they realize they are unable to make any sense of their reich wing, teabagging dogma
while history has proven them wrong and misguided
I seems to me that he was pointing out the Rev's talk of "reigh wing" hatred and then working himself up to a frenzy to spew hate himself.
Apparently not to that other guy.It was fairly obvious.
| Moderator's Warning: |
but Cat, the opposition so NEEDS a tangible entity to hate
and an identifiable head of that entity to rail against
as well as a stated platform to ridicule
all because they realize they are unable to make any sense of their reich wing, teabagging dogma
while history has proven them wrong and misguided
one who insists they don't have a political lean while advocating for a right wing position
Well either you have no clue what makes something Left or you simply are, or perhaps you believe that the lie that OWS is not Leftist?here are some of the things that boxes OWS into being in the very least a Left leaning movement:share with us the characteristics you have identified which allows the Occupy movement and ALL of its participants to automatically be found to exhibit/possess a left lean
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
*These grievances are not all-inclusive. Declaration of the Occupation of New York City | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street
(The bold parts are their doing not mine) Then they go on and introduce the changes that they want.A proposal of the Politics and Electoral Reform group at Occupy Wall Street
Government of the people, by the people and for the people has been transformed into government of the people, by the parties, for entrenched interests. The centralization of political power in the hands of two narrow political factions at all levels of government is neither democratic nor republican. No party system whatsoever is mandated by the U.S. Constitution. The two-party system is incapable of providing adequate representation for the many diverse interests constitutive of the American electorate. Lawmakers representing these entrenched factions have rigged our electoral system to ensure their continued monopoly on public office in the United States. Our government does not represent the interests or will of the people. It is time to institute free and fair elections in the United States.
In the federal system, the states are the laboratories of democracy. We urge the people of states, localities, and General Assemblies nationwide to begin a series of bold new experiments in democratic self-government. We urge assemblies across the country to deliberate on radical reforms that can help break the ruling political monopoly in government through free and fair elections, and put people before parties. We urge the people of states, localities and general assemblies nationwide to demand the implementation of electoral reform and begin a series of bold new experiments in democratic self-government, from the bottom up.
Draft Proposal for Saturday 12/9 General Assembly: Politics and Electoral Reform | NYC General Assembly # Occupy Wall Street
Notice the date of 12/4/11 This is a current project and reflects the visions and goals of the OWS collective. read it carefully and notice the stark Left proposed policies that OWS is promoting. Soon this or a similar document will be approved by the NYCGA and guess what you nor myself get to voice our opinions in any meaningful democratic way on what OWS is planning on doing.DRAFT VISION STATEMENT
12/4/11 Consensed V&G Group Vision
What follows is a living document that will be revised through the democratic process of the General Assembly.
From the General Assembly of the Occupy Wall Street movement, to the People of the World, we offer a Declaration of our Vision.
Mic Check: We are the 99 %.
System Check: The system is broken.
Fact Check: The environment is collapsing.
Reality Check: There must be change.
We envision a truly free, democratic, and just society, built on the following principles:
Liberty: whereby we secure the civil and human rights of all against violation or infringement, particularly by unchecked corporate power and unjust governments;
People Power: whereby government, in every form and at every level, exists by the will of those governed. In this new world neither wealth nor history alone will justify power;
Solidarity: whereby all people come together to make decisions through consensus; a process by which everyone’s voice is heard, and no one is marginalized.
Accountability: whereby all who reap society’s benefits accept a fair share of their responsibilities;
Fairness: whereby political and economic institutions work to benefit all. We dare to propose that the social, economic and political systems be reviewed and revised where they no longer function in the interest of all;
Peace: whereby we learn to live in harmony and embrace principles of tolerance and respect for diversity and the differing views of others;
Equality: whereby institutionalized racism, sexism, and all other forms of discrimination are rejected by all;
Non-violence: whereby non-violence is embraced as a way of life, and we resolve to always carry a good message as we work out our differences.
People Before Profit: whereby we value human dignity and needs over monetary gain, because when people lack security or a standard of living adequate for their well-being, effective democracy is impossible;
Meeting Human Needs: whereby meeting human needs are elevated to a place of primary importance; among these are the right to meaningful and well paid work; decent housing; and comprehensive healthcare and education;
Environmental Stewardship: whereby we work together to protect the global environment and preserve all species to ensure that life is sustainable, and that future generations will have safe and clean air, water, and food supplies.
Mic Check: We are the 99 percent.
Our occupation will continue.
We will make this vision a reality.
The Working Group on Vision and Goals continues to work toward a more comprehensive statement of visions and goals to be incorporated as soon as possible into this living document. This is an official document crafted by the Working Group on Vision and Goals. The New York City General Assembly came to consensus on ______________ to accept this working draft and make it accessible to the public by posting it online.
END OF DOCUMENT
When they refer to the 99%, they refer to the class of income earners that pay more in taxes so the 1% can continue to receive tax breaks. They never claimed all were unhappy about that arrangement.
No, they speak for those who are against neoliberalism, which is radical itself. It has a strong manifestation in American politics, and the protestors are speaking up against it.The Barbarian said:okay got it . .so they speak for the far left wing radicals .. much like yourself .. yep .. that clears up a lot of things about the OWS people .. makes sense now
okay got it . .so they speak for the far left wing radicals .. much like yourself .. yep .. that clears up a lot of things about the OWS people .. makes sense now
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?