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Does Joe Biden have the best plan for Iraq?

Does Joe Biden have the best plan for Iraq?

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MC.no.spin

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With the VP being Biden, there is a total upgrade for the Democrats as regards foreign policy. Obama will no doubt rely heavily (if not completely) on Biden's 30 years of foreign policy experience to direct U.S. activity abroad.

Biden is an expert and his strategy for Iraq has strong appeal. He has been to Iraq about 10 times, and his plan makes sense.

The plan is to have the United States work to support the division of Iraq into three semi-autonomous regions, each governed locally by its dominant ethnic and religious factions, the Shiites, Sunnis, and Kurds. This would be voted on by the Iraqi people, allowed for in their constitution. The regions would have dominion over police protection, jobs, utilities and other municipal functions, supported by a weaker federal government in Baghdad. All three regions would share in the country’s oil revenues.

Oil is where the political plans for Iraq differ significantly. The Republican plan has the oil being privatized with oil companies paying royalties. Biden feels we have no right to tell Iraq what to do with their oil, and should let them control how this is done. By having total control of their oil, Iraq could make much more profits and divide it up between the three regions, which would greatly help make them viable economies.

Troops would still be required for a time at various sensitive zones, while much of the current troops could be withdrawn.

Thoughts?

A conversation with Senator Joseph Biden - Charlie Rose
 
It is the plan I agree with the most but I am not sure if it is the "best" plan. Separating Iraq into regions look as if it is required but I hesitate only because a split such as this will lead to further sectarian fighting. Though this fighting also seems to be inevitable.
 

That's just it - how to reduce the fighting. Under one government, the Shiites have control and the Kurds and Sunnis protest. The Biden plan gives autonomy to all three regions. Kurdistan Region is already there pretty much, and has a significantly better economy (hardly any American or coalition soldiers have been killed in the Iraqi Kurdistan region since the war began.) They have a 100,000 military that is very skilled (they have to be to protect the oil that is there from Arab attacks.) The Iraqi army is barred from the region, the Iraqi flag is prohibited and central government ministries are not present.

Trying to unite all these sects under one flag, one government, and as a single unit has proven very difficult. We have had much military success, but now the government we have been establishing has been ripe with problems, being dominated by the Shiites.

You can't fit round pieces into square pegs. It's like trying to force South Ossetia back into Georgia. Etc.

We really need to look at developing world peace through a new look at borders and boundaries that were forced into existence which are in fact unworkable.
 
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I agree but splitting the regions will lead to one region believing they should rule all three regions in the future. There can be no equal power among men.

As I said though the violence is inevitable and the three regions will bring semi-peace for at least a few decades. So it is the best choice presented thus far.
 
This was essentially what Iraq had in the 1990s, and it was more or less stable. The no-fly zones basically limited Saddam's sphere of influence to the Sunni Arab region of Iraq. Many Kurds don't even consider themselves part of Iraq, and the Shiites don't want to share their oil wealth with the Sunni Arabs.

One solution that I think might be best is a two-state solution instead of a three-state solution. Have a majority Kurd / minority Arab state in the north, have a majority Shia / minority Sunni state in the south, and deprive the Sunni Arabs of a state altogether.
 
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The Iraq constitution calls for provincial and local governing bodies. What is wrong with the provincial governments that are being stood up by the US Military now? The provincial and local governments gives tribal leaders more say. Three Large govenments have the same problem which was the problem with the first years of the US Iraq War.

Trying to manage Iraq with a Top Down mentality is nuts. You need to empower local leaders, and give them constructive guidelines and key assistance at certain times.

I have never heard a good idea from Joe Biden.

I root for the Pro-Choice Democrats, but Joe Biden has a low rating, 36%, from Naral, and I don't trust him. Biden has a 13% rating from Pro-Life votes.

2006 U. S. Congress Ratings


Downside of Joe Biden

The Case Against Joe Biden - The Fix


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Kandahar said:
Perhaps. So what?
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What do you mean perhaps so? We need Iraq as a buffer against Iran. Having three seperate countries is not the path to that buffer. Do you want a large section of Iraq to go over to the Iranian side? Especially the section with the port?
 
obvious Child said:
What do you mean perhaps so? We need Iraq as a buffer against Iran.
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We *did* need Iraq as a buffer against Iran, but the ship has already sailed on that one. Iraq isn't going to be strong enough to push back on Iran anytime soon.

obvious Child said:
Having three seperate countries is not the path to that buffer. Do you want a large section of Iraq to go over to the Iranian side? Especially the section with the port?
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Better than the entire country, led by a Shiite government. Which is basically what Iraq has now.
 
obvious Child said:
What do you mean perhaps so? We need Iraq as a buffer against Iran. Having three seperate countries is not the path to that buffer. Do you want a large section of Iraq to go over to the Iranian side? Especially the section with the port?
Click to expand...

Why would that happen? They are different tribes and Iraqi Shiite would want their own autonomy.
 
I'm not sure Biden still, right now, wants to partition Iraq into 3 sections. I read something recently which suggested he was backing away from calling for any partition. Or at least he no longer was comfortable with the "partition" phrasing. Things have changed in Iraq since Biden's plan. It wouldn't be surprising if his plans now change too. I recall Obama definitely leaning away from us taking it upon ourselves to carve Iraq up into pieces.
 
I don't think anyone knows what is best for Iraq. I think creating the situation where the people are allowed to chose is the morally correct thing. However, past that I thinks it's up to the people.
 
From On the Issues / Joe Biden
  • Accept NIE conclusion that Iran stopped nukes in 2003. (Dec 2007)
  • Muslims don't like us because they do not trust us. (Dec 2007)
  • Iraq war is sucking up a $150B a year. (Dec 2007)
  • Strong US intervention in trouble spots around the world. (Nov 2007)
  • Post-colonial countries like Iraq need federal system. (Nov 2007)
  • A military action resolution on Iran is a bad policy. (Oct 2007)
  • Troops out by 2013 if no political reconciliation. (Sep 2007)
  • Patraeus report is wrong strategy; draw down troops now. (Sep 2007)
  • Changed mind on Iraq pullout, not about political solution. (Sep 2007)
  • Worth losing election to protect our troops. (Sep 2007)
  • Leaving Iraq will cause generation-long regional war. (Aug 2007)
  • It's already US policy to go into Pakistan to get al Qaeda. (Aug 2007)
  • Bush has lied for 7 years; tell truth on Iraq. (Aug 2007)
  • Voted for Iraq War resolution to avoid war in Iraq. (Jul 2007)
  • 1995: pushed to lift arms embargo in Bosnia. (Jul 2007)
  • 1995: pushed Clinton to bomb Serbia to free Kosovo. (Jul 2007)
  • Bush invaded Iraq as the weakest of the Axis of Evil. (Jul 2007)
  • End neocon fantasy of remaking Iraq in our image. (Jul 2007)
  • We can't just pull out; one year to remove 160,000 troops. (Jul 2007)
  • Iraqi leaders unwilling & unable to accommodate with Sunnis. (Jul 2007)
  • Never de-fund a single soldier in Iraq. (Jul 2007)
  • Rather lose elections than to lose troops' lives. (Jun 2007)
  • Start to draw down troops immediately and all out by '08. (Jun 2007)
  • Fund the safety of the troops till 67 anti-war votes reached. (Jun 2007)
  • Do away with the policy of regime change for Iran. (Jun 2007)
  • Start moving combat troops out of harm's way now. (Apr 2007)
  • Not micromanaging war to authorize & define mission. (Apr 2007)
  • Target date ok; deadline not ok; changing failed mission ok. (Apr 2007)
  • Think about the decade after Iraq, not just the day after. (Apr 2007)
  • There will be a residual force left in Iraq. (Apr 2007)
  • In 2002 Saddam posed a threat of purchasing a nuclear bomb. (Apr 2007)
  • US worse off than before Saddam because US lost credibility. (Apr 2007)
  • Partitioning Iraq is inevitable, as shown by history. (Apr 2007)
  • Change the fundamental premise of Iraq engagement. (Apr 2007)
  • Replace pre-emption doctrine with prevention. (Apr 2007)
  • Decentralize Iraqi government; local control over daily life. (Apr 2007)
  • Biden-Gelb plan: UN & Muslim powers to enforce Iraq unity. (Apr 2007)
  • Introduced legislation barring US Military bases in Iraq. (Apr 2007)
  • Stop training thugs as the national Iraqi police force. (Apr 2007)
  • Decentralize Iraq to give people control over daily lives. (Feb 2007)
  • If Iraq metastasizes into regional war, it'll take decades. (Feb 2007)
  • Voting Record
  • Regrets his war vote because Bush misused war authority. (Apr 2007)
  • Vote for war allowed war only after all else failed. (Apr 2007)
  • Vote for Iraq War was mistake; assumed Bush competence. (Feb 2007)
  • Voted for Iraq war in 2002, but now a war critic. (Nov 2006)
  • Voted NO on designating Iran's Revolutionary Guards as terrorists. (Sep 2007)
  • Voted YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq by March 2008. (Mar 2007)
  • Voted NO on redeploying troops out of Iraq by July 2007. (Jun 2006)
  • Voted YES on investigating contract awards in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Nov 2005)
  • Voted YES on $86 billion for military operations in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Oct 2003)
  • Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)
  • Voted NO on allowing all necessary force in Kosovo. (May 1999)
  • Voted YES on authorizing air strikes in Kosovo. (Mar 1999)
  • Voted YES on ending the Bosnian arms embargo. (Jul 1995)
  • Condemns anti-Muslim bigotry in name of anti-terrorism. (Oct 2001)
  • Move the US Embassy to Jerusalem. (Nov 1995)
 
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I did a search for recent sentiments on the plan and found this. Looks like the Republican plan is working politically much more as of today (funny this isn't discussed in addition to the surge) and the Biden plan would be rejected.


World | Africa - Reuters.com
 
I find his ideas a little arrogant it goes along with those on the left who talk about people in Iraq like they are uppity children.I think Iraqis will and should decide how they want their country to be in that respect.I dont think segregation is ever gonna be a long term solution.
 
mikhail said:
I find his ideas a little arrogant it goes along with those on the left who talk about people in Iraq like they are uppity children.
Click to expand...

If there is any evidence that suggested they AREN'T like uppity children, I have not seen it.

mikhail said:
I think Iraqis will and should decide how they want their country to be in that respect.
Click to expand...

I agree. But HOW should they decide that? Obviously the national government is never going to vote to cede some of its territory or allow part of it to declare independence, even if that's what the people of that area want.

mikhail said:
I dont think segregation is ever gonna be a long term solution.
Click to expand...

Iraq is not the United States of America. If you have multiple communities that frequently war with each other and have conflicting goals, sometimes separating them works better than trying to make them play nice.
 

Look the Iraqi people and im talking about your normal folks in that country have been through hell they have actually raised themselves from getting in a civil war.If you know anything about biology you will be able to understand they are no different to you or me we just haven't been through the **** they have.

I see no real evidence Iraqis actually want their country divided the majority are not militants they just wanna have jobs and feed their families.
 
Before the civil war settled down, dividing the country was certainly an option. Now that the civil war is mostly under control, the country may be able to strike a balance of power between the groups as exists in some of its neighboring countries. I doubt western democracy will ever fly in Iraq. Their culture and ideas regarding government are just too different from western ways.
 

I don't think that people necessarily have to be militants to want their independence... many Kurds have considered themselves an independent nation since even before the war began. I have no problem with allowing them to keep their de facto independence. Their nation has been much more successful than the rest of Iraq.

As for the Arabs, they probably would choose to remain a single state, and that's up to them. But it's still probably a bad idea.
 
Biden and Obama are two of a kind. Both went straight from small time positions to the Senate. Biden got through the 60's without serving in the military. Why doesn't he have to explain that? Maybe he was a draft dodger, shouldn't this be discussed?
 

No. Because no one cares. And even if they did, it has nothing to do with this thread.
 
I truly believe that Biden had the best plan for Iraq. Choosing him as VP probably still won't bring me to the polls, but I feel much more comfortable about Obama with Biden at his side.
 
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