but many of the parents of those special needs kids do not want them in enclaves with other special needs kids
they want them with 'regular' students in 'regular' schools, to 'mainstream' them
why would a FOR PROFIT school allow students who are much more expensive to educate, attend at the same voucher value as a student who did not need extraordinary and expensive resources, if they are allowed to exclude such special needs/high cost students [as is the circumstance today]
For public schools the cost per student is taken from the expenses of the school and it's enrollment. You can't "fudge" cost per student when that's your data. Private schools seldom publish their budget and financing.Revenue (tuition) and production costs are actually never equal or maybe I should say only in rare cases.
You keep interchanging tuition and operating cost but they're not usually synonymous in private schools. For example, it's a well known fact that Catholic schools are highly subsidized by the Church, so comparing Catholic school tuition to public school cost, instead of comparing Catholic school cost to public school cost, isn't a valid comparison. You really need to make sure the Catholic church is willing to subsidize millions and millions of non-Catholic children before you use their tuition rates as "cost". The same applies to virtually all private schools in America. I think you'll find most of them are supported through other means than just tuition, so to use private school tuition statistics you would need the consent of all contributors and philanthropists that donate to private schools. Good luck getting that because I'd bet they're not willing.
I would also note your private school "tuition" most likely does not include transportation costs.
Really? The motive behind any school that has to make a profit is profit. That is why I think these schools choose the number of students they take in with expensive issues and get rid of those that they know need more.
Yeah, really. You're acting like the only recipient of the voucher is a private, for profit, school. These vouchers are also used to send students to better performing public schools, charter schools and magnate schools. Not just private and parochial schools.
Now, as to "for profit schools" if there is a market, someone will find a way to make it profitable.
Privatization and voucher schemes are based on the notion that it impossible to effectively educate most poor and other challenging children, and that it is acceptable to give up on the effort. The problem of educational failure will never be solved with that attitude and such practices.
That is just one of the reasons classroom teachers are left with fewer and fewer resources to help the most needy students.
why would a FOR PROFIT school allow students who are much more expensive to educate, attend at the same voucher value as a student who did not need extraordinary and expensive resources, if they are allowed to exclude such special needs/high cost students [as is the circumstance today]
Mostly school choice is for other public schools and charters in the area.
That was the topic of the discussion. Links were used to show which states had these vouchers. If you want to change the topic feel free. My state does not do private vouchers. Mostly school choice is for other public schools and charters in the area.
And you know for a fact the non-Catholic schools get no outside donations? I'd like to see these non-Catholic school budgets but I bet they don't publish them.There are several private schools in my area, not all Catholic, and all roughly the same tuition.
And you know for a fact the non-Catholic schools get no outside donations? I'd like to see these non-Catholic school budgets but I bet they don't publish them.
You said it was rare, I just looked up my own and found out it wasn't so rare after all.Right, and about 3 other states are similar. 4 Total.
Then what you've been comparing as expense per student isn't expense per student at all. The low tuition you've been quoting relies on charity that you can't in any way guarantee will continue at those levels when millions of poor children become part of that system. Don't expect poor mothers to bake a hundred dollars worth of goods to sell or even expect them to attend rallies to raise money. Don't expect poor children to sell candy bars around their neighborhood, they most likely won't. If poor parents and children were that involved in their inner-city schools we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.Oh, I didn't say that. Most private schools are fund raising constantly, so?
Oh, I didn't say that. Most private schools are fund raising constantly, so?
You are so off base you're on the football field. The voucher system is based upon the idea that regardless of income a child has a chance at a better school. If it was about not educating the poor then why would a voucher go to the poor to allow them to attend a better school. And by better I am talking about a school that fits their needs....
Many schools will cost more than the vouchers will cover. Prosperous families will be able to pay the extra cost, the poor will not. Poor children will continue to be relegated to less expensive private and/or public schools. The public schools will be worse than ever because so much money will be funneled to the private schools. Poor children will be worse off than ever and more prosperous families will get a nice discount for a private school funded by tax payers and the poor.
The wealthy can afford to put their children wherever they wish. The poor at least can use a voucher system to choose a school better than the terrible one their child currently is required to attend. And, with the money following the child instead of being assigned to a school, some will be able to put their child in a good parochial or private school that would have been beyond their means without such choice being made to them. And by this means the better and best schools will prosper. The terrible schools will not and will hopefully close.
For the life of me, I can't understand why the leftists/statists/progressives/political class/liberals are so gung ho to deny people a choice in where their child will attend school. What is so scary about that to them?
You said it was rare, I just looked up my own and found out it wasn't so rare after all.
Then what you've been comparing as expense per student isn't expense per student at all. The low tuition you've been quoting relies on charity that you can't in any way guarantee will continue at those levels when millions of poor children become part of that system. Don't expect poor mothers to bake a hundred dollars worth of goods to sell or even expect them to attend rallies to raise money. Don't expect poor children to sell candy bars around their neighborhood, they most likely won't. If poor parents and children were that involved in their inner-city schools we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.
So are most of the public schools at least the ones I went to and the ones my kids attended in 4 different states. What's your point?
And you know for a fact the non-Catholic schools get no outside donations? I'd like to see these non-Catholic school budgets but I bet they don't publish them.
I think you need to re-acquaint. Vouchers, in many of the proposed systems, are not just for sending your kid to private school.
I doubt that the vouchers will enable many of the the poor to afford a better school. Vouchers will drive up the price of all private schools since all but the poorer families will be able to pay more than they could previously and there will be more people trying to get into a limited number of schools. Free market competition should not be applied to education because public education should be provided to all on an equal basis and many families will not have the ability to travel far out of their neighborhoods to where the good schools are located. There is a lot of money being spent by for-profit education companies advocating for these changes because they are hoping to increase their profits dramatically.
I don't trust the whole voucher scheme because the real intent is to bust unions, restore racial segregation, get taxpayers to fund religious education and to destroy the public school system so that education can be run by profiteers.
Well okay. Thanks for giving an honest opinion about that. That shows more guts that most of your ideological brethren here have shown. But you'll have to show some evidence for the purpose of the vouchers being to bust unions, restore racial segregation, fund religious education, and destroy the public school system, and benefit profiteers.
I could have sworn the majority of us supporting school vouchers--I would guess maybe 100% of us--approve of school choice because it helps all kids get a better education than they could otherwise. And we pretty much are unified that the status quo that you describe as 'providing to all on an equal basis' has put the cost of our education near the top in the world while putting us way down near the bottom of the barrel in effectiveness of that education. We simply think it is time to do it differently and achieve better results.
I doubt that the vouchers will enable many of the the poor to afford a better school. Vouchers will drive up the price of all private schools since all but the poorer families will be able to pay more than they could previously and there will be more people trying to get into a limited number of schools. Free market competition should not be applied to education because public education should be provided to all on an equal basis and many families will not have the ability to travel far out of their neighborhoods to where the good schools are located. There is a lot of money being spent by for-profit education companies advocating for these changes because they are hoping to increase their profits dramatically.
I don't trust the whole voucher scheme because the real intent is to bust unions, restore racial segregation, get taxpayers to fund religious education and to destroy the public school system so that education can be run by profiteers.
:dohUm, yeah, I know since the schools in my state don't use vouchers for private school. I mentioned that more than once.
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