The War On Terrorism Is a Joke

[Fledermaus]

Willful stupidity will bear no fruit here.

To whom is this reference to?

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Yes, try to pay attention.

I paid very little attention to the Benghazi attack.

Sure we did. The CIA had a working relationship with him.

Bin Laden & the CIA - msnbc

As anyone who has bothered to read this far certainly knows by now, bin Laden is the heir to Saudi construction
fortune who, at least since the early 1990s, has used that money to finance countless attacks on U.S. interests and those of its Arab allies around the world.

As his unclassified CIA biography states, bin Laden left Saudi Arabia to fight the Soviet army in Afghanistan after
Moscow's invasion in 1979. By 1984, he was running a front organization known as Maktab al-Khidamar - the MAK - which funneled money, arms and fighters from the outside world into the Afghan war.

What the CIA bio conveniently fails to specify (in its unclassified form, at least) is that the MAK was nurtured by
Pakistan's state security services, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, the CIA's primary conduit for conducting the covert war against Moscow's occupation.

By no means was Osama bin Laden the leader of Afghanistan's mujahedeen. His money gave him undue prominence
in the Afghan struggle, but the vast majority of those who fought and died for Afghanistan's freedom - like the Taliban regime that now holds sway over most of that tortured nation - were Afghan nationals.

Yet the CIA, concerned about the factionalism of Afghanistan made famous by Rudyard Kipling, found that Arab
zealots who flocked to aid the Afghans were easier to "read" than the rivalry-ridden natives. While the Arab volunteers might well prove troublesome later, the agency reasoned, they at least were one-dimensionally anti-Soviet for now. So bin Laden, along with a small group of Islamic militants from Egypt, Pakistan, Lebanon, Syria and Palestinian refugee camps all over the Middle East, became the "reliable" partners of the CIA in its war against Moscow.

Sorry, but that is all fake news. The US and the CIA had zero relationship to Usama Ibn Laden. And we did not fund him in any way.

Someone should have explained to you at an early age that contradiction isn't an argument.

We went over this before. Challenging untrue statements and stating why they are incorrect is a pretty good way of responding to them.

We weren't talking about South Korea.

Sure we were. South Korea proves that you are wrong to dismiss those other governments as being unreliable.

 

[JoeB131]

So, we agree. Reagan never called osama Bin Laden a freedom fighter.

Well, yes, he did, but you want to avoid the obvious.
I'm not sure why you want to separate Bin Laden from all the other religious fanatics Reagan called "Freedom Fighters".

His family which had nothing to do with 9/11.

Are you sure about that? It would have been nice to have questioned them.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Are you sure about that? It would have been nice to have questioned them.

I'm sure that the members of UBL's extended family had nothing to do with UBL's terrorism.

Although there were some complicit intelligence agents that Saudi Arabia had spirited out of the country.

 

[Fledermaus]

Well, yes, he did, but you want to avoid the obvious.

No, he didn't.

I'm not sure why you want to separate Bin Laden from all the other religious fanatics Reagan called "Freedom Fighters".

Arab volunteers =/= Mujahadeen

Are you sure about that? It would have been nice to have questioned them.

Questioned them about what?

He had been long disowned by his family.

 

[multivita-man]

However in regards to the 3rd issue, I experienced it and so would argue yes terrorism is real, exists all over the world and is classified in many forms including;

How do you feel about terror warfare against mostly unarmed civilian populations? Is that terrorism too?

 

[Fledermaus]

How do you feel about terror warfare against mostly unarmed civilian populations? Is that terrorism too?

If civilians are intentionally targeted as part of a greater terrorist scheme, yes.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm sure that the members of UBL's extended family had nothing to do with UBL's terrorism.

Although there were some complicit intelligence agents that Saudi Arabia had spirited out of the country.

where do you think he got the money? He was one of 56 children (no, really) you don't think his family was in on it?

Arab volunteers =/= Mujahadeen

Except the CIA (under Reagan and Casey) openly encouraged the Arab Volunteers to join the fight.

Thus why they call it blowback.

Now, if Reagan had said, "Just you guys and not you guys", you might have a point.

 

[Fledermaus]

where do you think he got the money? He was one of 56 children (no, really) you don't think his family was in on it?

Nope.

Except the CIA (under Reagan and Casey) openly encouraged the Arab Volunteers to join the fight.

And Arab fighters =/= Mujaheddin.

Thus why they call it blowback.

And?

Now, if Reagan had said, "Just you guys and not you guys", you might have a point.

Arab fighters =/= Mujaheddin

 

[Toggle Almendro]

where do you think he got the money?

His inheritance.

He was one of 56 children (no, really) you don't think his family was in on it?

Some of his wives and children were.

His parents and siblings, no.

 

[JoeB131]

And Arab fighters =/= Mujaheddin.

You are just repeating yourself.

Some of his wives and children were.

His parents and siblings, no.

Again, it would have been nice to have questioned them before spiriting them out of the country in the middle of the night.

 

[Fledermaus]

You are just repeating yourself.

Yes. Reality can be repeated.

Again, it would have been nice to have questioned them before spiriting them out of the country in the middle of the night.

Ummmmmmmmmmmm

Yeah.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes. Reality can be repeated.

Yes, it can be.

Reagan called the Islamic fighters in Afghanistan (including Osama Bin Laden) "Freedom Fighters".

You want to get hung up on that he didn't identify Bin Laden by name, and not the fact that our government sponsored, supported, armed, and trained these fighters.

In hindsight, it was a terrible idea. We paid a very steep price for it.

 

[Fledermaus]

Yes, it can be.

Reagan called the Islamic fighters in Afghanistan (including Osama Bin Laden) "Freedom Fighters".

You want to get hung up on that he didn't identify Bin Laden by name, and not the fact that our government sponsored, supported, armed, and trained these fighters.

In hindsight, it was a terrible idea. We paid a very steep price for it.

Ronald Reagan did not call Osama Bin Laden a Freedom fighter.

We know this.

The Arab volunteers were a step removed from the Mujahedeen. The Mujahedeen actually held them in contempt.

And the US sponsored, supported, armed, and trained the Mujahedeen.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

You want to get hung up on that he didn't identify Bin Laden by name, and not the fact that our government sponsored, supported, armed, and trained these fighters.

Our government did not.

In hindsight, it was a terrible idea. We paid a very steep price for it.

Except it didn't happen.

 

[JoeB131]

Ronald Reagan did not call Osama Bin Laden a Freedom fighter.

We know this.

The Arab volunteers were a step removed from the Mujahedeen. The Mujahedeen actually held them in contempt.

And the US sponsored, supported, armed, and trained the Mujahedeen.

The US actively recruited Arab fighters, because they were easier to deal with Afghan Tribesmen.

We stuck our hands into a hornet's nest and we cartoonishly got stung.

 

[JoeB131]

Our government did not.



Except it didn't happen.

So where do you think they got the Stinger Missiles from, the Missile Fairy?

 

[Fledermaus]

The US actively recruited Arab fighters, because they were easier to deal with Afghan Tribesmen.

We stuck our hands into a hornet's nest and we cartoonishly got stung.

The US sponsored, supported, armed, and trained the Mujahedeen.

 

[JoeB131]

The US sponsored, supported, armed, and trained the Mujahedeen.

Which included people who went on to become the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

 

[Fledermaus]

Which included people who went on to become the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Some people became Taliban.

And?

We didn't sponsor, support, arm, and train the Arab fighters.

 

[JoeB131]

Some people became Taliban.

And?

We didn't sponsor, support, arm, and train the Arab fighters.

Actually, we did.

Allegations of CIA assistance to Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On the other hand, several other journalists and academics have documented that bin Laden and the Afghan Arabs at least informally cooperated with the ISI, thus indirectly benefiting from the CIA's funding. According to bin Laden himself, Arab volunteers recruited at his Pakistani-based camp underwent training led by Pakistani and American officers, with the weapons provided by the U.S. and funds provided by Saudi Arabia, however elsewhere bin Laden would deny ever witnessing American aid, affirming only that American-provided weapons reached mujahideen through Pakistan.<Bin Laden's key Afghan allies during the war—Jalaluddin Haqqani and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar—were some of the CIA's greatest beneficiaries, with Haqqani being backed directly by the CIA (without ISI mediation), while simultaneously contributing to the formation and growth of bin Laden's group. The CIA backed an ISI initiative to recruit and train foreign mujahideen from around the globe, funded Islamic charitable organizations which recruited foreign mujahideen, and at one point even contemplated the formation of an "international brigade" composed of Afghan Arabs.

In an article in The Guardian, Robin Cook, the British Foreign Secretary from 1997 to 2001, would state that:

Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden#cite_note-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a>

According to journalist Ahmed Rashid, in 1986 bin Laden "helped build the Khost tunnel complex, which the CIA was funding as a major arms storage depot, training facility and medical centre for the Mujaheddin." in a 1995 interview bin Laden himself would state that:

To counter these atheist Russians, the Saudis chose me as their representative in Afghanistan, [...] I settled in Pakistan in the Afghan border region. There I received volunteers who came from the Saudi Kingdom and from all over the Arab and Muslim countries. I set up my first camp where these volunteers were trained by Pakistani and American officers. The weapons were supplied by the Americans, the money by the Saudis.

 

[Fledermaus]

Actually, we did.

Allegations of CIA assistance to Osama bin Laden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On the other hand, several other journalists and academics have documented that bin Laden and the Afghan Arabs at least informally cooperated with the ISI, thus indirectly benefiting from the CIA's funding. According to bin Laden himself, Arab volunteers recruited at his Pakistani-based camp underwent training led by Pakistani and American officers, with the weapons provided by the U.S. and funds provided by Saudi Arabia, however elsewhere bin Laden would deny ever witnessing American aid, affirming only that American-provided weapons reached mujahideen through Pakistan.<Bin Laden's key Afghan allies during the war—Jalaluddin Haqqani and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar—were some of the CIA's greatest beneficiaries, with Haqqani being backed directly by the CIA (without ISI mediation), while simultaneously contributing to the formation and growth of bin Laden's group. The CIA backed an ISI initiative to recruit and train foreign mujahideen from around the globe, funded Islamic charitable organizations which recruited foreign mujahideen, and at one point even contemplated the formation of an "international brigade" composed of Afghan Arabs.

In an article in The Guardian, Robin Cook, the British Foreign Secretary from 1997 to 2001, would state that:


According to journalist Ahmed Rashid, in 1986 bin Laden "helped build the Khost tunnel complex, which the CIA was funding as a major arms storage depot, training facility and medical centre for the Mujaheddin." in a 1995 interview bin Laden himself would state that:

ALLEGATIONS......