Navy Pride said:If you believe that life begins at conception then by the same line of thinking you have to believe that abortion is taking a life.............
Yup, abortion is taking a life. So is swatting a mosquito.Navy Pride said:If you believe that life begins at conception then by the same line of thinking you have to believe that abortion is taking a life.............
Navy Pride said:Well we have a lot of new members and have not done this one for quite a while so lets see how it comes out...
Oh and I am not going to let you cop out with "Not Sure"
hipsterdufus said:I voted no.
I believe that all sperm and all eggs are also alive, before conception ever takes place.
No, the potential for life begins in the ovaries and testicles.southern_liberal said:No. The potential for life begins at conception.
So if a woman rides a dirt bike over a jump a week after conception, not knowing she's pregnant, and miscarries, is she guilty of manslaughter?RightOfCenter said:I believe life begins at conception, and yes so does protection under the law and right to life. Citizenship is not important to a person's right to life.
You want to go with that argument, life began about 2-3 billion years ago, or about 9,000 years ago, with the first single-celled organisms, or with the Garden of Eden. It has been an unbroken chain since then.RightofCenter said:No, the potential for life begins in the ovaries and testicles.
Indy said:Life begins when the fetus/baby (whatever terminology you choose to use) is capable of living on its own outside of the woman's body. At that time abortion would be murder, before then it is not an issue.
So if they aren't citizens we can kill them? What does citizenship have to do with this at all? Can I go out and start killing illegal aliens?CoffeeSaint said:So if a woman rides a dirt bike over a jump a week after conception, not knowing she's pregnant, and miscarries, is she guilty of manslaughter?
Should you free the poor enslaved fetus, trapped in its mother's womb for nine months, deprived of sunlight and fresh air, stripped of its inherent right to liberty?
According to our government and our justice system, citizenship begins at birth, and the rights of citizenship begin then, as well. The courts have agreed to give a certain window of opportunity for unborn fetuses after six months, that they have a sort of limited status and limited protection under the law. But they are not citizens until birth. The two above scenarios, as ridiculous as they may seem, are part of the reason for that decision. I'm sorry if it seems callous, but that is the way it is.
What does that have to do with the topic at all?CoffeeSaint said:You want to go with that argument, life began about 2-3 billion years ago, or about 9,000 years ago, with the first single-celled organisms, or with the Garden of Eden. It has been an unbroken chain since then.
If you were killing millions of humans every time you took a shower or brushed you're teeth it probably would be a big deal wouldn't it?Befuddled_Stoner said:Of course life doesn't begin at conception, gametes are alive well before they merge.
Oh your God...you mean that abortions end life?!?! Meh, so what? Each and every day, I am personally responsible for killing hundreds, thousands, maybe even millions of lives. So is everybody else that washes their hands, brushes their teeth, or takes a shower, what's the big deal?
If they don't want to have kids they'll use protection, and if they really don't want to have kids they won't have sex. They know the risks when they spread their legs.Befuddled_Stoner said:Sure, zygotes develop into humans, but only after mooching shitloads of resources from a woman's body.
By that argument why the hell do complete strangers care if a murderer doesn't get punished for his crimes? It wasn't me who got murdered so I guess I'll just let this one go...Befuddled_Stoner said:If the woman is fine with having her abdomen distended, her hormones thrown outta wack, and the next 18 years of her life focused on rearing the little beast...sure, go right ahead. If a woman doesn't want to suffer through all that ****, why the hell do complete strangers want to force her? It's easy enough to **** up your own life, nobody needs complete strangers doing it for them.
If you prefer the term "person," we can use that as well -- though if that's the caser, I'd like to refer you to FutureIncoming, and see if you and he can agree on a definition of "person."RightOfCenter said:So if they aren't citizens we can kill them? What does citizenship have to do with this at all? Can I go out and start killing illegal aliens?
You said that the potential for life begins in the ovaries and testes; but where was the life before that? It was in the organs that made the gametes. And before that, it was in the gametes that made the person that made the new generation of gametes. And before that, it was . . .What does that have to do with the topic at all?
You were the one who brought up citizenship as if it had something to do with abortion and yes I will refer to the child as a person, without your demeaning quotes. You paint a gruesome picture that everyone who has sex without protection should think about the next time they're in too much of a hurry to have their partner put on a $.50 piece of rubber.CoffeeSaint said:If you prefer the term "person," we can use that as well -- though if that's the caser, I'd like to refer you to FutureIncoming, and see if you and he can agree on a definition of "person."
And I'll tell you what: the very next time an illegal alien crawls into your abdomen, connects itself to your bloodstream and begins stealing oxygen from your lungs and nutrients from your digestive system, and causes your body to instinctually sacrifice yourself in order to protect him, for nine months before he comes tearing out from between your legs, I promise I'll let you kill him.
Unless, of course, you spread your legs for him. Then it's all your fault.
Alright, I can agree with that, let's never end any life we can avoid ending. I can live with being a vegetarian that doesn't shower, brush my teeth, or shower if you can do the same and live without considering children to be parasites.CoffeeSaint said:You said that the potential for life begins in the ovaries and testes; but where was the life before that? It was in the organs that made the gametes. And before that, it was in the gametes that made the person that made the new generation of gametes. And before that, it was . . .
Southern liberal started the line of thinking, but you seemed to be continuing it. I just wanted to take it quickly to its natural conclusion: life only began once. It is passed on, but never created from a lack of life. We can only talk about an individual's life, and that begins at conception. Sorry for the confusion.
Rubber breaks. Then what's your plan? Are you for the morning after pill?RightOfCenter said:You were the one who brought up citizenship as if it had something to do with abortion and yes I will refer to the child as a person, without your demeaning quotes. You paint a gruesome picture that everyone who has sex without protection should think about the next time they're in too much of a hurry to have their partner put on a $.50 piece of rubber.
Well, no, that doesn't interest me -- but remember, I'm on the murderer's side here. I'm all for the killing of parasites. In fact, I didn't say anything about the preservation of life; I was only pointing out that the phrase "the beginning of life" is not one that has a simple meaning. BTW, vegetables ar alive. If you don't want to end any creature's life, you will end your own with remarkable rapidity.RightOfCenter said:Alright, I can agree with that, let's never end any life we can avoid ending. I can live with being a vegetarian that doesn't shower, brush my teeth, or shower if you can do the same and live without considering children to be parasites.
Don't gamble if you don't want to lose money bud. And yes I am.CoffeeSaint said:Rubber breaks. Then what's your plan? Are you for the morning after pill?
Then why were you trying to drum up sympathy for them? It boils down to the fact that humans aren't bacteria, cows, dogs, vegetables, they're humans regardless of how young they are.CoffeeSaint said:Well, no, that doesn't interest me -- but remember, I'm on the murderer's side here. I'm all for the killing of parasites. In fact, I didn't say anything about the preservation of life; I was only pointing out that the phrase "the beginning of life" is not one that has a simple meaning. BTW, vegetables ar alive. If you don't want to end any creature's life, you will end your own with remarkable rapidity.
Why would you want to spare the lives of parasites?
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