Do Trump Supporters Care if he lies to them?

[Dittohead not!]

I recognize your deflection from your original statement about Trump...which you've failed to justify...but don't expect me to play your game. Go ahead and deflect if it makes you feel better.

All you were able to show was that Trump made some statements that appeared to support the right wing platform on some issues. Before he decided to run for president on the Republican ticket, we were able to see what is real political ideology was. Now that he's turned politician, he has learned the trick of being whatever his audience wants. If he hadn't spouted off total nonsense, the idea that he has made a 180 degree turnaround and is not a conservative ideologue might be just plausible. As it is, it is not, not even a little bit.

 

[cpwill]

How does any of that make him any different from any other politician? How does it make him different than, say, Rubio? Or Cruz? Hillary? Obama???

They have actual pivot points. They don't change their mind constantly on major issues and then be unable to describe them and why.

Trump's arguments for switching on abortion was Nietzschesque - he knew a kid that was supposed to be aborted who turned out to be "a champion". That's it. A champion could have died. Not because of respect for life. He can't describe or defend his positions on the matter... because he doesn't think through these matters. He needed a reason to suddenly be Pro Life so that he could run for the GOP nomination, and so he picked some kid who was "a champion" because he figured that was a good story. In the meantime, he still thinks appointing pro-abortion judges to SCOTUS is a good idea, so long as he likes them personally.

There are gradations of people who shift positions. Trump, however, shifts on core principles, and he does it nakedly ambitiously. He's like Romney, except without Romney's sincerity and conservatism. Now, possibly (given that he can't seem to describe his thinking, I find it unlikely), but possibly he has had a real conversion. That'd be wonderful. He still shouldn't be president if he just came to these positions thirty seconds ago. In the meantime, Trump has the most liberal history of anyone on the stage, and other than his claims (which he can't defend), I see no reason to suspect that he has actually changed.

Dittohead Not is correct on this.

 

[cpwill]

I recognize your deflection from your original statement about Trump...which you've failed to justify...but don't expect me to play your game. Go ahead and deflect if it makes you feel better.

Please show us Trump making the case for consistent principled conservatism prior to 2015, when he decided to run for the Presidency.

 

[cpwill]

How does any of that make him any different from any other politician? How does it make him different than, say, Rubio? Or Cruz? Hillary? Obama???

They have actual pivot points. They don't change their mind constantly on major issues and then be unable to describe them and why.

Worth noting - and if they do, then I don't trust them. That's why I didn't trust Romney - who is a veritable unchanging rock next to Trump... who in 2012 was attacking Romney from the left. On immigration of all things.

 

[Mycroft]

Please show us Trump making the case for consistent principled conservatism prior to 2015, when he decided to run for the Presidency.

I've never said he did make any such case. I've only said that bad-mouthing a person for "evolving" or "changing their mind" is a reasonable thing to do if one applies that attitude to everyone who has undergone similar changes.

btw, you spoke about core principles and shifting such positions. You can't get much "core" than being against gay marriage and then "evolving" to be for gay marriage. That's what Obama did and virtually nobody batted an eye...even though it was readily apparent he did it for political purposes. But when someone else does it...such as Trump...it's now a bad thing.

Look, if you don't like Trump, fine. But don't make up crap about why you don't like him. Just be honest and say you don't like him and leave it at that. You really do make yourself look like a fool when you concoct some elaborate house of cards to justify your dislike.

 

[tres borrachos]

Please show us Trump making the case for consistent principled conservatism prior to 2015, when he decided to run for the Presidency.

Maybe it was when he proclaimed his support for partial birth abortion. Or perhaps it was when he supported the assault weapons ban. Or it could have been when he said in 2004 that he was a Democrat.

 

[Dittohead not!]

I've never said he did make any such case. I've only said that bad-mouthing a person for "evolving" or "changing their mind" is a reasonable thing to do if one applies that attitude to everyone who has undergone similar changes.

btw, you spoke about core principles and shifting such positions. You can't get much "core" than being against gay marriage and then "evolving" to be for gay marriage. That's what Obama did and virtually nobody batted an eye...even though it was readily apparent he did it for political purposes. But when someone else does it...such as Trump...it's now a bad thing.

Look, if you don't like Trump, fine. But don't make up crap about why you don't like him. Just be honest and say you don't like him and leave it at that. You really do make yourself look like a fool when you concoct some elaborate house of cards to justify your dislike.

No one else has undergone such changes. It would be like Bernie Sanders suddenly becoming Ted Cruz, or vice versa. Moreover, his statements are not plausible, given his unending torrent of absurd remarks.

 

[cpwill]

I've never said he did make any such case. I've only said that bad-mouthing a person for "evolving" or "changing their mind" is a reasonable thing to do if one applies that attitude to everyone who has undergone similar changes

Feel free to go back to 2011 and 2012 and check my posts on Romney where I hit him for just such "conversions" upon the point of wanting to be President. When you change your mind constantly, I don't trust that you've thought through positions (Trump has changed foreign policy solutions to ISIL, for example, more rapidly than I've changed the oil in my truck)

When we were trying to stop gun bans, Trump sided with the gun bans. When the Tea Party needed leaders, Trump sided with Obama. When conservatives were trying to beat back the Establishment in the GOP that wanted the post-2012 solution to be "we need Amnesty", Trump sided with the Establishment. Trump never stood with conservatives until he needed our vote so he could be President, and now he claims to be one of us. No thanks, I've seen that trick played once twice three ti- every damn time a liberal wants the GOP nomination before.

btw, you spoke about core principles and shifting such positions. You can't get much "core" than being against gay marriage and then "evolving" to be for gay marriage. That's what Obama did and virtually nobody batted an eye...even though it was readily apparent he did it for political purposes. But when someone else does it...such as Trump...it's now a bad thing.

Obama was always for gay marriage - he lied about it in 2008. His base knew this, and therefore didn't care.

gay marriage isn't all that "core". Abortion is pretty Core. The size of government is pretty Core.

Look, if you don't like Trump, fine. But don't make up crap about why you don't like him.

I don't have to. I have a long list of reasons why I don't like Trump. The thing about not liking Trump is that you would never be in a position where you have to make up reasons, because he gives them all to you.

You really do make yourself look like a fool when you concoct some elaborate house of cards to justify your dislike.

:lol: okedoke, please point out any house of cards I've constructed. Everything I've built around him has been based on verifiable data. Nor am I exactly the only conservative making this case. Not by a long shot.

 

[Mycroft]

No one else has undergone such changes. It would be like Bernie Sanders suddenly becoming Ted Cruz, or vice versa.

Or like Obama or Hillary making an about face on important issues.

You are wrong to say no one else has undergone such changes.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Or like Obama or Hillary making an about face on important issues.

You are wrong to say no one else has undergone such changes.

Not even close.
And to believe that Trump actually has undergone such a miraculous transformation is to ignore the other absurdities that have come out of his mouth.

 

[Mycroft]

Not even close.
And to believe that Trump actually has undergone such a miraculous transformation is to ignore the other absurdities that have come out of his mouth.

shrug...

As I've said...his transformations are no different and no more remarkable than the miraculous transformation so many other politicians have undergone...as well as the absurd explanation from those politicians for their changes.

Trump is simply doing the same thing many other politicians have done.

Heck, even Sanders...that paragon of honesty...has "evolved" his positions.

 

[Dittohead not!]

shrug...

As I've said...his transformations are no different and no more remarkable than the miraculous transformation so many other politicians have undergone...as well as the absurd explanation from those politicians for their changes.

Trump is simply doing the same thing many other politicians have done.

Heck, even Sanders...that paragon of honesty...has "evolved" his positions.

So, Sanders was once a small government, pro life, anti gun control, anti welfare state, pro trickle down conservative, and now he's a Social Democrat? Really? I must have missed that somehow.

 

[Mycroft]

So, Sanders was once a small government, pro life, anti gun control, anti welfare state, pro trickle down conservative, and now he's a Social Democrat? Really? I must have missed that somehow.

Why do you feel the need to use hyperbole? Do you think it enhances your idiotic positions? News flash...it doesn't.

In any case, if you don't know how Sanders has "evolved", then you don't know as much about him as Hillary does.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Why do you feel the need to use hyperbole? Do you think it enhances your idiotic positions? News flash...it doesn't.

In any case, if you don't know how Sanders has "evolved", then you don't know as much about him as Hillary does.

Sanders may have "evolved." My example illustrates the degree to which Trump would have had to "evolve" if he really was what he is pretending to be. Interesting that you would call it "hyperbole" when it's just a description of the degree to which Trump's ideology has changed.

BTW, evolution takes millions of years.

 

[Mycroft]

Sanders may have "evolved." My example illustrates the degree to which Trump would have had to "evolve" if he really was what he is pretending to be. Interesting that you would call it "hyperbole" when it's just a description of the degree to which Trump's ideology has changed.

BTW, evolution takes millions of years.

LOL!!

Dude...it doesn't take any politician millions of years to evolve...it just takes a political incentive.

Anyway, degree doesn't matter. The fact that you make a big deal about it is what's so pathetic. And the fact that you respond to me with hyperbole makes you sound more and more idiotic...like you don't have a reasoned response so you do the next best thing...use hyperbole.

 

[Dittohead not!]

LOL!!

Dude...it doesn't take any politician millions of years to evolve...it just takes a political incentive.

Anyway, degree doesn't matter. The fact that you make a big deal about it is what's so pathetic. And the fact that you respond to me with hyperbole makes you sound more and more idiotic...like you don't have a reasoned response so you do the next best thing...use hyperbole.

Describing such a radical change of direction is not hyperbola, not is it idiotic. The only idiotic stance is to take Trump at face value. He's not a conservative, never has been, probably never will be.

 

[cpwill]

Worth noting as an update - Trump announced in the middle of the last debate that in fact he was Flexible on his signature issue (immigration), and changed his policy on-stage. In the context of the discussion of the NYTimes sit-down, he basically told his supporters he intended to ride the issue to the nomination, and then dump it overboard as soon as it was inconvenient.

His supporters? Cared not a whit.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Worth noting as an update - Trump announced in the middle of the last debate that in fact he was Flexible on his signature issue (immigration), and changed his policy on-stage. In the context of the discussion of the NYTimes sit-down, he basically told his supporters he intended to ride the issue to the nomination, and then dump it overboard as soon as it was inconvenient.

His supporters? Cared not a whit.

Trump said it himself: He could go out on the street and shoot someone, and he wouldn't lose any votes. His supporters don't seem to care what he does or says.