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Was this person insane or just DD?
Their inability to make rational choices has no hold on their abilitiy to make their own choices. Insanity is no excuse. An insane murderer is still a murderer
I always thought that free will in a religious context means that we are not pre-destined in how we act or what happens to us.....
IOW, our actions have a lot to say in how we get judged in the hereafter.
That being said, I believe that Adam Lanza was as deranged as they come, but very skilled at hiding it...he was a ticking bomb for a long time.
something was written about his being goth, and his getting together with like minded friends to play video games.
Both seem indicative of emotional immaturity and failure to adapt to societal norms.
Agreed. Insanity is not a valid excuse. I would argue that to murder somebody insanity is a requisite.
I would have to disagree. A simple difference in brain structure can cause a person to be very hot tempered. Not very many people think when they are mad. Things happen. Still it is no excuse to be mad (by either definition)
I guess to defend my opinion, did this person have freewill to shoot his/her first victim? Was their not a climax to which he was driven too?
I'm not condoning his actions.
I stand by it. There is nothing that drives them to make that choice but themselves. There are much better solutions to removing them from society, but that still doesn't change the fact that they chose to do it. There needs to be better and earlier screening to find psychological abnormalities.
You did not state this but it needs to be stated. Violence on television is not a factor. I have watched violence for years, I play video games from time to time, I do not go out and shoot people for fun. There is a distinction between reality and fantasy.
garbage utter garbage
Violence everywhere is a factor in some of the anomalous behavior we see. Movies like Hostel I, II, III -- video games -- some sick **** of a cable show called American Horror Stories (or some such) that I turned off a few days ago when it became apparent we were going to watch women be skinned alive. Combine this pervasive violence with children who are sexually or physically abused, who are denied normal love and affection, who have no outlet for the anger they harbor, and we create a powder keg.
Young children's minds are not fully cooked. They are forming their morals, learning empathy, and all the rest. No one will ever convince me that watching violence and participating in it via video games at a young age is not a part of the problem of these young men who "go postal."
I can think of several neighborhood boys that I watched grow up with that seemed to be disturbed. I was sure that they wouldn't make it to adulthood without seriously injuring themselves or someone else. It wouldn't have surprised me to see one of them in prison. But it didn't happen to those kids. But someone I would least expect to steal, do drugs, go to prison, it did happen to him.
There are a lot of sick people out there displaying no symptoms.....none whatsoever...
For the record, I think that this thread kind of illustrates the stigma that people with mental illness, disorders and disabilities have to deal with - this idea that they're choosing their behavior as much as those without it are, or at least enough to be held responsible for it. I think what a lot of people don't get about mental illnesses, et al. is that it can, oftentimes, have just as significant an impact, if not more, on "choice" as physical illnesses.
A person with Parkinson's disease cannot stop his body from moving and nobody would dare chastise him for knocking a glass over at dinner. Imagine having that same kind of lack of control in your mind - the one place where you're supposed to be able to have total control - and then being told by others that that lack of control doesn't exist and that your behavior is all your fault. That attitude is a problem. I'm not saying that nobody with a mental illness, disorder or disability can control how they express what their brain is making them feel or think. Many people can control it, but some cannot and even those who can often have significant barriers to doing so - more than those without such problems.
Moreover, just because we might stop caring about the causes and explanations for murder and similarly violent acts doesn't mean that those causes and explanations actually go away. It just means that we're ignoring something because we feel like it.
I think that depends what you would classify as mentally challenged, because in my opinion there are varying degrees of it...
Either way, I think that it's a bit bigoted to say that they have no free will. My opinion is that they have free will, it's just harder to come to a decision, or maybe they're more impulsive due to their disability.
Again there is absolutely no proof (real) that this person was mentally ill or a psychopath. From all reports he was Autistic or do we equate Psychopath and sociopath with DD's now? ReallY?
It depends on the degree of consciousness. The less cerebral brain matter a being has, the less free will it has. That being said, even a dog has a certain amount of free will and everyone but God can be said to be "mentally challenged" to some degree or another. Thus, being "mentally challenged" should not excuse us from immoral choices or immoral actions. In regards to the CT massacre, Lanza certainly was exercising some degree of free will and conscious choice, even if he was "mentally challenged."
Of course, the real question in regards to criminal culpability should be "What degree of threat does the guilty party pose to society, regardless of his state of mental health or mental capacity?"
-A choice to act on urges that was/is influenced by environmental and genetic influences beyond the person's control.
To the bolded: I don't necessarily believe that to be the case. People who have reached the point of homocide/suicide, are not rationalizing at that point. They are so miserable that they are lashing out at others, then destroying what they perceive to be the real problem. They are at the point of extreme rage and anger, as they feel that their life is out of control. I think they are desperate for their discomfort to come to an end.
Temporary insanity is just a window into a person that hides their insanity better than others. Hell, my ex has BPD and that is an insanity if ever there was one.
This is true of everyone. We all have factors outside our control that influence our decisions, but they don't take our decisions away from us.
I think Jack came up with a good line of reasoning... as do you. That is the problem. This is so difficult to understand. This guy objectified the children. I doubt he saw them as people and just as objects. That being said... why kill/destroy them? Why do people kill innocent people and then themselves? Why not just themselves? I can see him shooting his mom. There could be all sorts of real or imagined reasons for that... but little children you have never met? This is the rage you discuss so aptly. Jack's point that they have a plan makes sense to though. Why kill themselves in the end? Because they know they don't want to be caught and/or because they want to be a martyr.
I completely agree with you. And since you have tied my post to the guy in Connecticut, I'll tell you what I think about him sans any facts at all:
I think he was probably sexually or physically abused as a young child. I believe he was frustrated to the point of madness; perhaps because he was being bullied, or because he couldn't make friends, or because he failed to bond with his mother. I think he was very conflicted about his mother and blamed her for much that was wrong in his life. I believe he felt completely helpless to change or control his life.
And last Friday morning? He finally took charge.
And you know he was able to do this how?
I see The religious praying at churches and stuff after horrible events like this latest school shooting. They comfort themselves with the idea that "God has a plan". Well, God gave us free will... so the idea that there is a plan kinda makes sense, to a degree. What about the mentally challenged socio-paths that commit crimes like this. Manson, Bundy, this ****tard who killed the beautiful and innocent little children. Can they have free will? They can't, in my opinion. They are ****ed in the head. They can't make rational decisions AT ALL. They don't understand consequences. Many of them lack morals.
I just wonder because the idea of free will seems to get tossed out the window when it comes to these ****s... so, logically, that shoots a hole in the entire idea that there is ANY free will.
What say you?
If a person is subjected to enough stress/anxiety/depression it most certainly can.
I see The religious praying at churches and stuff after horrible events like this latest school shooting. They comfort themselves with the idea that "God has a plan". Well, God gave us free will... so the idea that there is a plan kinda makes sense, to a degree. What about the mentally challenged socio-paths that commit crimes like this. Manson, Bundy, this ****tard who killed the beautiful and innocent little children. Can they have free will? They can't, in my opinion. They are ****ed in the head. They can't make rational decisions AT ALL. They don't understand consequences. Many of them lack morals.
I just wonder because the idea of free will seems to get tossed out the window when it comes to these ****s... so, logically, that shoots a hole in the entire idea that there is ANY free will.
What say you?
I completely agree with you. And since you have tied my post to the guy in Connecticut, I'll tell you what I think about him sans any facts at all:
I think he was probably sexually or physically abused as a young child. I believe he was frustrated to the point of madness; perhaps because he was being bullied, or because he couldn't make friends, or because he failed to bond with his mother. I think he was very conflicted about his mother and blamed her for much that was wrong in his life. I believe he felt completely helpless to change or control his life.
And last Friday morning? He finally took charge.
To the bolded: I don't necessarily believe that to be the case. People who have reached the point of homocide/suicide, are not rationalizing at that point. They are so miserable that they are lashing out at others, then destroying what they perceive to be the real problem. They are at the point of extreme rage and anger, as they feel that their life is out of control. I think they are desperate for their discomfort to come to an end.
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