dottedmint
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Main Entry: par·a·site
Pronunciation: 'per-&-"sIt, 'pa-r&-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, from Latin parasitus, from Greek parasitos, from para- + sitos grain, food
1 : a person who exploits the hospitality of the rich and earns welcome by flattery
2 : an organism living in, with, or on another organism in parasitism
3 : something that resembles a biological parasite in dependence on something else for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return
Main Entry: par·a·sit·ism
Pronunciation: 'per-&-s&-"ti-z&m, -"sI-, "pa-r&-
Function: noun
1 : the behavior of a parasite
2 : an intimate association between organisms of two or more kinds; especially : one in which a parasite obtains benefits from a host which it usually injures
The male Photocorynus spiniceps discovered in the Philippines was first reported in the journal Ichthyological Research in 2005. It spends its life fused to its much larger female counterpart, which is many thousands of times greater in weight. While the female takes care of swimming and eating, the male fish, with its enormous (relative to its body size) testes, has almost the sole task of aiding reproduction. In scientific terms, the male P. spiniceps is described as a sexual parasite.
The small angler fish (Photocorynus spiniceps) that cruise around at great depths are most unlikely to meet a member of the opposite sex at a time or place when the female happens to be ready to shed her eggs. As a form of insurance to this end, however, any small, young male that happens to meet a large female, apparently at any time, immediately fastens on to her head or sides by his jaws and thereafter lives a totally parasitic existence sustained by the juices of the female body. Sperm thus becomes available at any time the female may produce eggs to be fertilized.
Now it has been established that a fetus/embryo fits the definition of a PARASITE.
1. Does not fit.
2. An embryo/fetus is an organism. The mother that it lives in is also an organism.
3. An embryo/fetus is "in dependence on" the mother "for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return".
An embryo/fetus (one organism) has an "intimate association" with the mother (another organism). It "obtains benefits from a host" (the mother) that (yes) it "usually injures".
Some in here have argued that the term "parasite" does NOT apply to an embryo/fetus because we are dealing with the same species. (Homo sapien)
Well..... I did some research and let me introduce you to Photocorynus spiniceps the angler fish.
Photocorynus spiniceps
Check out the pic of this freaky fish.....
The Encyclopedia of Astrobiology Astronomy and Spaceflight
And.....
sex :: Courtship --* Britannica Concise Encyclopedia*- The online encyclopedia you can trust!
Encyclopedia Britannica
So we have established that an organism can be a parasite to another organism of the same species.
Some in here have argued that since it may cause "harm" to the mother that she should have the right to kill it.
There is a slight problem with that.
Typically one human is only allowed to LEGALLY kill another human if their LIFE is in danger.
IF some guy comes up and punches me in the face I cannot LEGALLY kill him.
IF this same guy is beating me to the point where I might die I do have a LEGAL right to use lethal force.
But I cannot kill him if he simply causes me "harm".
It has already been established that a fetus/embryo is a LIVING ORGANISM.
It has already been established that a fetus/embryo is HUMAN (Homo sapien).
Now it has been established that a fetus/embryo fits the definition of a PARASITE.
No, it has not been established that the fetus/embryo is a parasite. You are mixing scientific jargon and vernacular definitions to the effect of creating some convenient Frankenstein definition.
The parasite is an external force that feeds on the host, for one. It may live within the host at the time of the parasitic relationship, but it is an intruder. The fetus is does not intrude; it is created by the species.
On that simple point alone, the fetus is not a parasite.
talloulou: The ZEF fits the definition loosely. It is not classified as such though. Biologically ZEF's are not considered parasites except sometimes in the case of twins that are fused or something. Honestly I don't think there are any mammals that are classified as parasites, are there?
It's used as derogatory put down and used in that manner it has no scientific or biological merit. Humans aren't considered parasites in any scientific or biological way. So in the world of science or medicine calling the ZEF a parasite is just a put down and not a genuine clinical description in a healthy pregnancy.
Bull$hit otherwise they'd be classified as parasites and they clearly aren't!The only definition of a parasite that a ZEF does not fit is : a person who exploits the hospitality of the rich and earns welcome by flattery.
Bullshit.Every other definition it does fit.
Really? I could find a definition for retard that states a stupid obtuse person. Then I could suggest you clearly fit that definition. But you see that would be rude and wrong. :roll:I don't think there is anything wrong with saying a ZEF is a parasite.
Then why don't drs. and scientists consider all mammals that reproduce with live births parasites? Hmm? Because that would be fvcking stupid that's why.I don't see it as degrading or insulting or anything negative.
Bull$hit otherwise they'd be classified as parasites and they clearly aren't!
Bullshit.
Really? I could find a definition for retard that states a stupid obtuse person. Then I could suggest you clearly fit that definition. But you see that would be rude and wrong. .
And even with your stupid god damn fish the male still fuses itself to the female. She doesn't help create the male. He is an outside invader and not something her body creates.
Because for the life of me I can't figure out why a prolifer would persist in calling the ZEF a parasite!
Fine. What part of the definition of a parasite (other than the one I pointed to) does not fit a ZEF?
BTW....I can roll my eyes as well.....:roll:
Um.... Drs fertilize an egg at the clinic and implants it in a woman who isn't even the biological mother.....
Her body did not create the organism living inside of her.
Oh I almost forgot.... :roll:
Because as I pointed out it fits the definition of a parasite.
:roll::roll::roll:
Now you are playing word games and have changed your definitions.
"Can't be a parasite because it is the same species"
Oh never mind....
"Can't be a parasite because it is not an "external force"."
What next?
No, I gave you an additional reason why. I also gave you a reason why your previous example didn't fit and even a link to a web entry that never used the word parasite.
Your desperation is showing.
Are you talking about the Wiki entry that you linked to????
As I explained before while the main entry didn't use the word parasite the REFERENCES that they LINKED to DID use the word parasite.
Talk about being dishonest.....
jallman said:However, being that I am gracious and enjoy being fully in control of this conversation, I will indulge this latest tantrum for a time. Other texts may refer to it as a sexual parasite. In this capacity, it becomes disingenuous and dishonest to remove the pairing of the words because a whole new definition is take on.
And wasn't your other reason that one organism can't be a parasite to an organism of the same species.
That as I pointed out is WRONG.
And one of your other reasons was that a parasite is an "external force".
Then (as I asked before) is a ZEF that is implanted into a woman a parasite since it is also an "external force"?
#2 requires that def #3 fits, and I don't think def #3 fits.1. Does not fit.
2. An embryo/fetus is an organism. The mother that it lives in is also an organism.
3. An embryo/fetus is "in dependence on" the mother "for existence or support without making a useful or adequate return".
.
Do humans begin life as a parasite....
For once I'm actually not trying to start a fight when I ask something like this, but I honestly do not understand something about the PC argument and I hope there is a somewhat patient PCer who can explain this to me.
How can the ZEF be a parasite if it's also a part of the woman's own body ("no diferent than a pinky", the argument goes)?
Given the definition above, if the ZEF is a parasite, then it is not a part of the woman's body. If it is a part of the woman's body, then it's not a parasite.
I'm
I doubt very much that many on the PC side actually consider a fetus to be a parasite, but rather simply use the term to counter extremism from the PL side. For those that actually do, they are in my opinon confused as to what a parasite actually is.For once I'm actually not trying to start a fight when I ask something like this, but I honestly do not understand something about the PC argument and I hope there is a somewhat patient PCer who can explain this to me.
How can the ZEF be a parasite if it's also a part of the woman's own body ("no diferent than a pinky", the argument goes)?
Given the definition above, if the ZEF is a parasite, then it is not a part of the woman's body. If it is a part of the woman's body, then it's not a parasite.
I'm
Then, obviously, if it is implanted into a woman as can happen, it isn't an intruder, it is a guest and it is producing reasonable return for its resources as it is clearly providing some emotional and/or genetic support for a species lineage.
Drat, foiled again. I am just not living up to expectations here lately. You will notice that I have repeatedly, recently, been conceding the parasite argument and actually arguing that it can't be a parasite on the same grounds, among other truth that I was previously too arrogant to perceive.
It's because I noticed the exact same inconsistency you pointed out. I didn't particularly want to advertise my revision...I was hoping it would just slide through and become part of our collective understanding. I kind of lose a little face in having to recant an earlier position.
Once again, you have justified your own arrogance by calling the inconsistency to task. That is what I am used to seeing out of you.
I doubt very much that many on the PC side actually consider a fetus to be a parasite, but rather simply use the term to counter extremism from the PL side. For those that actually do, they are in my opinon confused as to what a parasite actually is.
Its all a back and forth game of pushing to extremes, with an occasional debate about the actual issue thrown in. Regadless of peronhood, Murder, slavery, Gods Wrath....or whatever, seldom is the underlying issue ever actually discussed honestly. Instead people revert to name calling, and overly simplified opinions.
Hope that clears it up a bit.
I'm not sure about your stance on rape pregnancies; is it that the fetus is making an adequate return by "perpetuating the species"?
What about fetuses- wanted or unwanted- who are transexed or otherwise suffering from defects that will leave them incapable of reproducing?
They will not be contributing to the "perpetuation of the species".
Are they, then, parasites?
The definition of "parasite" is broad, and can include even adult hman beings who leech off the system or off other people.
If I am not mistaken, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but we are in agreement that the "parasite" argument really boils down to it is just plain offensive on a couple of fronts.
No, adjusting your views when you learn or realize a new truth *adds* to credibility, not subtracts it. You've lost nothing.
I thought I was just ignorant on some aspect of biology, but I guess I can go be arrogant some more now :mrgreen:
Maybe I should join the USMC instead of the National Guard….I like my arrogance being justified
….this must be how teacher feels all the time….
If I am not mistaken, and feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but we are in agreement that the "parasite" argument really boils down to it is just plain offensive on a couple of fronts. To apply the term parasite rankles pro-lifers in such a way that could be seen as cruel. It is a disregard for their wider views and where they are coming from that it is all but malicious. It serves no purpose and ultimately has no bearing on the argument anyway. When the fetus gets called a parasite, it is a sign that the discussion isn't two-way anymore; its emotional hyperbole from the PC side and nothing more.
Dottedmint, who is supposed to be pro-life, is a complete anomaly to me and I am having a measure of amusement dismantling the argument just because she seems totally disingenuous and it is a nice little proving ground with no real risk of embarassment.
I would be much more hard pressed if she actually believed the parasite comparison or if proving that comparison were in any way pivotal to her case. I am having a little bit of difficulty maintaining my argument because I have always been under the auspices of not sugar coating what I see as truth.
The truth is that the ZEF has parasitic qualities that can be applied loosely if one wants to inflame. That is about the only purpose in calling those qualities into play. Its rude and tasteless and I realize that now.
As to your question about rape victims...you are putting me in a bit of a quandary. Yes, the resulting offspring is part of her body, but no, its circumstance wasn't exactly "intruder-less". However, it is still a human off-spring and to call it a parasite, while further absolving the female (which shouldn't have to happen in the first place), still would be inflaming and dishonest on at least multiple levels, if not all.
Better to just show some ferocity in this case and lay it out that, no, it is not a parasite but that fact does not have any relevance to whether the woman has control of her bodily resources when the "feelings" or "pain" or even "lost capacity" of the fetus isn't in question.
Bottom line is this, and we all know it...no need to equivocate it: the woman has all rights to do with her zef as she sees fit provided that she does so with responsibility. Now we all know that the achievement of a 100% responsibility quotient has about a nickel's chance of going unclaimed at a BaMitzvah. That's just a fact of life and so, to compensate for human frailty, the Law needs to step in with some regulations that will protect the unborn at a time when they ARE worthy of personhood. Further, we have to be reasonable about what the qualifications of personhood are.
In effect, I will never defer my position on the count of a unique DNA pattern alone, however I will if it eliminates the possibility of the fetus suffering in any way, shape, or form.
21 weeks is reasonable. The morphological/anatomical structures are in place that give the ZEF possibilities that it simply did not have before. I would prefer to see a cut-off at 18 weeks. I would jump at the the offer for even 19 weeks to be the cut-off. In exchange, I am willing to concede that anyone performing an abortion after that demarcation is, in fact, guilty of murder.
Disclaimer: Excepting any risk of imminent death or irreparable injury to the mother as a result of continued gestation. In these cases, the right to life of the woman is always going to ethically trump any ethereal or theoretical rights a fetus has. It's really just a matter of who has paid their dues already and who hasn't even begun. Fair is fair.
That's a very objective and true opinion of abortion debate.
I only went to the actual reason why I oppose abortion once....made a whole thread on it to...but for the most part I'm here for entertainment and academics.
I agree that it is unnecessarily incendiary; it is not something I simply spew out unprovoked.
Likewise, I don't tell ugly people that they're ugly, unless they provoke me to an extreme.
An ugly person, however, who repeatedly got into my face insisting that they were beautiful and that I should acknowledge that, is pretty much just begging for a dose of the hard truth.
And someone who repeatedly insists, despite all evidence, that the relationship between a pregnant woman and a fetus is not a biologically parasitic one, is likewise begging for a dose of the hard ugly reality.
As someone who has been thoroughly cannibalized by the two former parasites who now make my life worthwhile (and did, even at the time), I am in a good position to be the bearer of this unwanted truth.
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