Very brief article, and I would like to observe that the Josephson Institute of Ethics has been tracking this for quite some time and that, sadly, became the norm long ago. What I always found fascinating was the fact that a majority of students ranked themselves as the most ethical person they know while also cheating. https://www.thefp.com/p/dishonor-code-what-happens-when-cheating
https://www.plagiarism.org/article/plagiarism-facts-and-stats
Since the day I joined DP, I have bitched about those regard who college as a glorified trade school. Trust, I understand that a college degree is a "calling card" and also, frankly, that any old degree, including my undergrad one, will do.The problem comes when the results are more important than the work that went into them. The majority of job applications are sorted through various filters and automations where things like GPA are sought after more than the content of the person. i.e. an automatiion of GPA saying 3.8 or above will filter out anyone lower (regardless or experience or content) from the application process altogether. With those key filters in play, people are willing to do anything (i.e. cheat) to get that GPA as close to 4.0 as possible. It sucks but that is where automation of the application process is going.
Yeah cheating for me is a huge nono. If my autistic ass can get an associates and bachelors despite having to catch up from basic algebra to calc 3 so can anyone else.Since the day I joined DP, I have bitched about those regard who college as a glorified trade school. Trust, I understand that a college degree is a "calling card" and also, frankly, that any old degree, including my undergrad one, will do.
I have 35+years now behind me as an academic, and from that position I will testify to the unreadiness of most students for college work. I think it was back in 2008 that the NY Times (or maybe its magazine) ran a "Back to School" article about how, in defiance of scientific law, what was going on in lower education had now trickled up. Oh, yes. Grade inflation, academic reward for "trying," and etc. have produced students with high school diplomas who can't understand an op/ed and who cannot write or do math either. But hey, so long as they earn that degree, it's all good.
Except it's not. It's a waste of time and money for students and the institutions. Those teaching the "core curriculum" courses (the generally required ones taken for the first two years of college) cannot teach to the course materials when they are having to "refresh" students' understanding of 8th-grade English or high school biology. My professional opinion is that (1) this country should encourage a "gap year," a year to think through and explore options and that (2) high schools should offer more practical training (cosmetology, auto repair, etc.) and that realistic emphasis should be placed on the increasingly valuable 2-year Associate of Applied Science degree (EMS, radiology tech, dental hygienist, network administration, and so on).
But none of these measures address cheating and the "ends justifying the means" as acceptable. And the battle was lost when the University of Virginia through out its honor code. The code was student-driven, by the way, and the bottom line was that if you were caught cheating, you were expelled.
Zero tolerance for academic dishonesty has my vote.
Bingo. This thread could end right now.The problem comes when the results are more important than the work that went into them.
If you think students are unprepared for college now, wait until they take a gap year.My professional opinion is that (1) this country should encourage a "gap year," a year to think through and explore options
Our entire K-12 educational system needs a serious re-imagining. But America is unwilling to put the time, effort, and money in to make that happen.and that (2) high schools should offer more practical training (cosmetology, auto repair, etc.) and that realistic emphasis should be placed on the increasingly valuable 2-year Associate of Applied Science degree (EMS, radiology tech, dental hygienist, network administration, and so on).
As Davin said, for too many people, the "ends justifying the means" is what matters, an example of the tail wagging the dog...because the ends were more important to society than they've ever been to students or education.But none of these measures address cheating and the "ends justifying the means" as acceptable.
Dishonor Code: What Happens When Cheating Becomes the Norm?
Their learning from the older generation, and a large segment of that has basically said cheating is ok.Very brief article, and I would like to observe that the Josephson Institute of Ethics has been tracking this for quite some time and that, sadly, became the norm long ago. What I always found fascinating was the fact that a majority of students ranked themselves as the most ethical person they know while also cheating. https://www.thefp.com/p/dishonor-code-what-happens-when-cheating
https://www.plagiarism.org/article/plagiarism-facts-and-stats
It's been a good fifty five years since I've been out of high school which I didn't finish. Ten years of catholic schooling and as much as I don't believe in an almighty entity, it was a fantastic basic education. Twenty five years later I walk into a ged test with zero prep, finished the test before most of the others, next night same thing. Passed with no problem and I thank my catholic schooling for it.Since the day I joined DP, I have bitched about those regard who college as a glorified trade school. Trust, I understand that a college degree is a "calling card" and also, frankly, that any old degree, including my undergrad one, will do.
I have 35+years now behind me as an academic, and from that position I will testify to the unreadiness of most students for college work. I think it was back in 2008 that the NY Times (or maybe its magazine) ran a "Back to School" article about how, in defiance of scientific law, what was going on in lower education had now trickled up. Oh, yes. Grade inflation, academic reward for "trying," and etc. have produced students with high school diplomas who can't understand an op/ed and who cannot write or do math either. But hey, so long as they earn that degree, it's all good.
Except it's not. It's a waste of time and money for students and the institutions. Those teaching the "core curriculum" courses (the generally required ones taken for the first two years of college) cannot teach to the course materials when they are having to "refresh" students' understanding of 8th-grade English or high school biology. My professional opinion is that (1) this country should encourage a "gap year," a year to think through and explore options and that (2) high schools should offer more practical training (cosmetology, auto repair, etc.) and that realistic emphasis should be placed on the increasingly valuable 2-year Associate of Applied Science degree (EMS, radiology tech, dental hygienist, network administration, and so on).
But none of these measures address cheating and the "ends justifying the means" as acceptable. And the battle was lost when the University of Virginia through out its honor code. The code was student-driven, by the way, and the bottom line was that if you were caught cheating, you were expelled.
Zero tolerance for academic dishonesty has my vote.
Not in my lifetime. Maybe in another couple of thousand years?Course language, loosening of societal mores, me first attitude and more.
I’ve seen it all in my time in this life…..makes one wonder where it will stop.
Kudos on Cal 3.Yeah cheating for me is a huge nono. If my autistic ass can get an associates and bachelors despite having to catch up from basic algebra to calc 3 so can anyone else.
Not any generation per se because choosing to be dishonorable is an individual choice as is teaching your kids that so long as you "win," the how doesn't matter.Their learning from the older generation, and a large segment of that has basically said cheating is ok.
Please don't ruin my thread by interjecting partisan politics into it. I mean, yay you for getting in a cheap shot, but you have dozens of political threads to play in.
Thanks. If all colleges had tutorial centers like Sinclair community college, there would be a lot less dropouts imho.Kudos on Cal 3.
Nota is right this aint the thread for this.
Aren't classes graded on a curve, if someone else gets an A my grade goes down.The problem comes when the results are more important than the work that went into them. The majority of job applications are sorted through various filters and automations where things like GPA are sought after more than the content of the person. i.e. an automatiion of GPA saying 3.8 or above will filter out anyone lower (regardless or experience or content) from the application process altogether. With those key filters in play, people are willing to do anything (i.e. cheat) to get that GPA as close to 4.0 as possible. It sucks but that is where automation of the application process is going.
I've seen what happens. Some students go to work in a retail job and discover that they like it. Some travel. Some volunteer. Some join the military. And some never return.If you think students are unprepared for college now, wait until they take a gap year.
Thank you for posting about the GED for anybody out there who didn't finish and has thought about it. You can do it.It's been a good fifty five years since I've been out of high school which I didn't finish. Ten years of catholic schooling and as much as I don't believe in an almighty entity, it was a fantastic basic education. Twenty five years later I walk into a ged test with zero prep, finished the test before most of the others, next night same thing. Passed with no problem and I thank my catholic schooling for it.
I think many students don't understand the concept of intellectual honesty, or even what it means to do independent work, so maybe this isn't so surprising. Many university level students seem to view assessment as a formality, and have the view that they are more consumers rather than learners (i.e., they are paying for the credentials directly, rather than paying for access to expertise upon which they can build their credentials around).Not any generation per se because choosing to be dishonorable is an individual choice as is teaching your kids that so long as you "win," the how doesn't matter.
And again, what is also troubling is the fact that the same students who cheat so frequently rank themselves as having high morals.
Totally agree. Our local 2-year institution has a tremendous learning center, and its math profs rotate tutorial sessions weekly as a requirement of their job. I think the foreign-language profs may too in their lab.Thanks. If all colleges had tutorial centers like Sinclair community college, there would be a lot less dropouts imho.
You've made some brilliant points here to which I want to respond after thinking a bit more. In the meantime, I hope some of our more thoughtful members will chime in.I think many students don't understand the concept of intellectual honesty, or even what it means to do independent work, so maybe this isn't so surprising. Many university level students seem to view assessment as a formality, and have the view that they are more consumers rather than learners (i.e., they are paying for the credentials directly, rather than paying for access to expertise upon which they can build their credentials around).
In my mind, there are three main reasons for this:
First, higher education has become business focused, and so to a large degree, treats students as consumers first, learners second. When a student is caught cheating, it makes more sense from a business standpoint to give the student a minor penalty and allow them to continue their studies (i.e. purchasing access to more courses), than to end or suspend their academic career.
Second, this is a natural extension of the ubiquity of the internet - looking up things has become second nature, and I think many students don't see the difference between using the internet as a resource to build their answers and simply getting the answers from the internet. At some level, most certainly understand that copying answers directly is wrong, but I'm not sure they see an issue with paraphrasing someone else's answers, for instance, since that is just another internet resource.
Third, as mentioned in the thread, most post-secondary education has become built around gatekeeping. How or what you gained from your education isn't assessed meaningfully in many cases. only your final scores. Moreover, there is a strong perception (probably right in some cases), that many requirements for post-secondary are superfluous . So, this is a feedback to point one, where education is becoming more about business than anything else. and students are simply asking the business to hold up their part of the bargain (provide a degree) in return for the money they pay.
To me, correcting this requires that education be publically funded. That way, operation can be separated from outcomes, and students can be treated as learners, not consumers. This would give more freedom to universities and colleges to fairly assess students and punish those that are intellectually dishonest. In principle, it could also allow those who are struggling access to more help so that they can learn and be successful honestly, hopefully reducing the impulse to cheat.
However, it wouldn't correct the problem that degrees have become a gate to employment (basically, another form of trade school, as mentioned). This creates pressure for success that will cause people to take short cuts. And while it is easy to judge such people (I certainly have a great deal of frustration with those that are academically dishonest), the reality is that expecting those taking a course/program that they have no interest in, and probably will never use the information from, to care about it is unrealistic. Of course, this ignores that while the information might not be needed, the process does cause people to grow as individuals and critical thinkers. But, these traits aren't being demanded by either society or employers, only the credentials, and so it is impossible to expect these individuals to see that.
There's nothing wrong with those who choose a path other than college after high school. But for those wanting to go to college, a gap year would be devastating for educational development.I've seen what happens. Some students go to work in a retail job and discover that they like it. Some travel. Some volunteer. Some join the military. And some never return.
And so what if they don't?
But this would not be due to a gap year, but rather for an additional year of age and maturity. Which will happen either way.But most of those who return have a much more mature understanding of why they are there and what they want.
In my extremely limited and somewhat anecdotal experience, younger students are more likely, in general, to drop classes, for a variety of reasons. Upper class students tend to have their path picked out and know what few courses they have remaining for graduation, but for younger students, they have more flexibility (for lack of a better word) in their courses.That first year away from home can be a real education. I've mainly taught seniors and grad students, but my bosses always wanted everybody to keep their hand in, and so at least once a year, we'd teach a freshman course. I've always chosen crack-of-dawn classes because these always end up being the smallest. But it also means that these days students come to class still drunk. My guess is that nearly a quarter of new freshmen don't make it until the end. (I could be wrong about this, but spring semester enrollments are always lower than the fall's.)
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