Did Zelensky squander Ukraine’s best chance for peace back in 2022?

[CarterYang]

In the spring of 2022, Ukraine and Russia were reportedly on the verge of a peace agreement in Istanbul, but Zelensky chose to walk away. Now, three years later, with the country in ruins and the West growing weary, we find ourselves back at the point where everything could have concluded.

Rumors are swirling that Putin and Trump may meet soon, potentially to restart those discussions—without Kyiv at the negotiating table. According to Der Spiegel, there’s a sense of panic within Zelensky’s office, and no one seems to know where Trump stands on the peace process. The German outlet has labeled Trump as “the engine moving everything forward” and the biggest wildcard in the situation.

So, once again, did politics prolong the war—and at what cost to the Ukrainian people?

 

[Hamish Howl]

Oh, shit, there's another one.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Go here:

Russia / Ukraine / Belarus

Russia/Ukraine/Belarus political debate and discussion.

debatepolitics.com

 

[joluoto]

The only thing on the table in 2022 was unconditional surrender.

 

[Juin]

In the spring of 2022, Ukraine and Russia were reportedly on the verge of a peace agreement in Istanbul, but Zelensky chose to walk away. Now, three years later, with the country in ruins and the West growing weary, we find ourselves back at the point where everything could have concluded.

Rumors are swirling that Putin and Trump may meet soon, potentially to restart those discussions—without Kyiv at the negotiating table. According to Der Spiegel, there’s a sense of panic within Zelensky’s office, and no one seems to know where Trump stands on the peace process. The German outlet has labeled Trump as “the engine moving everything forward” and the biggest wildcard in the situation.

So, once again, did politics prolong the war—and at what cost to the Ukrainian people?
View attachment 67570763

Zelensky will not be Zelensky if he had not wasted the opportunity 2022 in Istanbul. If Poroshenko, or some other was President chances are greater that Istanbul may have saved Ukraine. Zelensky cannot live without Crimea. Why? Who knows. He is rumoured to have had an apartment there, but that only partially explains why the price to retake it does not make him recoil.

Long before hostilities broke out he set up an international Crimea Platform aimed at retaking Crimea. Talk about baiting the bear. He is still talking about it today.

Zelensky will squander whatever opportunity is on the table today

 

[Craig234]

Russian propaganda. Russia is a war criminal invader, Ukraine is defending themselves.

 

[lynnwinslow]

Rumors are swirling!

 

[Loulit01]

Did Zelensky squander Ukraine’s best chance for peace back in 2022?​

No. This is just another Russian propaganda attack.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Zelensky: Here's a peace plan. Get the **** out of our country!

 

[Jredbaron96]

In the spring of 2022, Ukraine and Russia were reportedly on the verge of a peace agreement in Istanbul, but Zelensky chose to walk away. Now, three years later, with the country in ruins and the West growing weary, we find ourselves back at the point where everything could have concluded.

Rumors are swirling that Putin and Trump may meet soon, potentially to restart those discussions—without Kyiv at the negotiating table. According to Der Spiegel, there’s a sense of panic within Zelensky’s office, and no one seems to know where Trump stands on the peace process. The German outlet has labeled Trump as “the engine moving everything forward” and the biggest wildcard in the situation.

So, once again, did politics prolong the war—and at what cost to the Ukrainian people?
View attachment 67570763

No.

Ukraine backed out of negotiations because the Russians demanded the insertion of a clause which gave them effective veto power over any Ukrainian security arrangement.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

Oh, shit, there's another one.

Ime there are a lot of gullible, bloviating, Republicrat-level, warmongering ninnies who have swallowed the pro-war shit fed to them by the same cla$$ of scumbags who fed Americans Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc. ad gd nauseam... ugh... good grief!!

 

[H. E. Panqui]

In the spring of 2022, Ukraine and Russia were reportedly on the verge of a peace agreement in Istanbul, but Zelensky chose to walk away. Now, three years later, with the country in ruins and the West growing weary, we find ourselves back at the point where everything could have concluded.

Rumors are swirling that Putin and Trump may meet soon, potentially to restart those discussions—without Kyiv at the negotiating table. According to Der Spiegel, there’s a sense of panic within Zelensky’s office, and no one seems to know where Trump stands on the peace process. The German outlet has labeled Trump as “the engine moving everything forward” and the biggest wildcard in the situation.

So, once again, did politics prolong the war—and at what cost to the Ukrainian people?
View attachment 67570763

I believe you'll find that monstrous US/NATO scumbags were instrumental in 86ing the 'peace agreement'...

 

[RaleBulgarian]

In the spring of 2022, Ukraine and Russia were reportedly on the verge of a peace agreement in Istanbul, but Zelensky chose to walk away. Now, three years later, with the country in ruins and the West growing weary, we find ourselves back at the point where everything could have concluded.

Rumors are swirling that Putin and Trump may meet soon, potentially to restart those discussions—without Kyiv at the negotiating table. According to Der Spiegel, there’s a sense of panic within Zelensky’s office, and no one seems to know where Trump stands on the peace process. The German outlet has labeled Trump as “the engine moving everything forward” and the biggest wildcard in the situation.

So, once again, did politics prolong the war—and at what cost to the Ukrainian people?
View attachment 67570763

The only opinions of Zelensky that matter are those of Ukrainian citizens.

 

[Jredbaron96]

I believe you'll find that monstrous US/NATO scumbags were instrumental in 86ing the 'peace agreement'...

The talks failed because the Russians inserted a clause giving them veto power over any security arrangement.

 

[Mr Person]

We've already gotten more than enough disinfo from blatant Putin sources, @CarterYang.

Setting your lean to "progressive" isn't going to fool anyone.

I believe you'll find that monstrous US/NATO scumbags were instrumental in 86ing the 'peace agreement'...

Actually, based on the above response what I found is that this subject is yet another one in which you spew steaming horseshit.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

Ime it's OBVIOUS to anyone not a brain-laundered Republicrat-level ninny that the US/NATO facilitated, welcomed, etc., this murderous scumbag proxy war to 'weaken Russia', 'boost arms sales,' 'test weapons/tactics against Russia', 'because it's good for the US economy', etc..

"..According to their account, talks between Ukraine and Russia collapsed after then-UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson visited Kiev in April and informed Zelensky that Putin “should be pressured, not negotiated with.” Johnson also relayed that “even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on [security] guarantees with Putin,” Western nations “are not.”

That report was followed this month by an overlooked disclosure from former White House Russia expert Fiona Hill. Citing “multiple former senior U.S. officials,” Hill wrote that “Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement” in April. Russia would withdraw to its pre-invasion position, while Ukraine would pledge not to join NATO “and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.” If the Ukrainian Pravda account is accurate, then it was the UK’s Johnson, presumably acting at the behest of the US, that undermined this agreement...

...David Ignatius, the Washington Post foreign affairs columnist, appears to be the only establishment media journalist who reported Putin’s remarks. In Ignatius' view, the Russian leader’s claim about a thwarted peace deal in the spring offers a potential, if unlikely, “off-ramp” today. Invoking the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, Ignatius compared Putin’s comment to the message from Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev that offered President John F. Kennedy “a path to de-escalation.” As with Khrushchev’s private overture to Kennedy, Putin’s claim about peace talks, Ignatius writes, is now Biden’s “letter to answer...”

Russia says US 'wrecked' Ukraine talks, but peace is still possible

A US official rejects Putin’s claim that NATO sabotaged a "peaceful settlement" with Ukraine early in the war. Whatever happened then, it is not too late for diplomacy in this perilous moment.

www.aaronmate.net

 

[H. E. Panqui]

We've already gotten more than enough disinfo from blatant Putin sources, @CarterYang.

Setting your lean to "progressive" isn't going to fool anyone.

I remember when 'progressives' were decidedly 'anti-war'.. Ime, it seems many are now gullible stooooopid neocon warmongers...

LOL! at today's 'progressives' who line up with Mitch McConnell, Lyndsey Graham, Tom Cotton, etc. murderous shit puppet$.. ugh..

 

[Jredbaron96]

Ime it's OBVIOUS to anyone not a brain-laundered Republicrat-level ninny that the US/NATO facilitated, welcomed, etc., this murderous scumbag proxy war to 'weaken Russia', 'boost arms sales,' 'test weapons/tactics against Russia', 'because it's good for the US economy', etc..

"..According to their account, talks between Ukraine and Russia collapsed after then-UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson visited Kiev in April and informed Zelensky that Putin “should be pressured, not negotiated with.” Johnson also relayed that “even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on [security] guarantees with Putin,” Western nations “are not.”

That report was followed this month by an overlooked disclosure from former White House Russia expert Fiona Hill. Citing “multiple former senior U.S. officials,” Hill wrote that “Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement” in April. Russia would withdraw to its pre-invasion position, while Ukraine would pledge not to join NATO “and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.” If the Ukrainian Pravda account is accurate, then it was the UK’s Johnson, presumably acting at the behest of the US, that undermined this agreement...

...David Ignatius, the Washington Post foreign affairs columnist, appears to be the only establishment media journalist who reported Putin’s remarks. In Ignatius' view, the Russian leader’s claim about a thwarted peace deal in the spring offers a potential, if unlikely, “off-ramp” today. Invoking the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, Ignatius compared Putin’s comment to the message from Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev that offered President John F. Kennedy “a path to de-escalation.” As with Khrushchev’s private overture to Kennedy, Putin’s claim about peace talks, Ignatius writes, is now Biden’s “letter to answer...”

Russia says US 'wrecked' Ukraine talks, but peace is still possible

A US official rejects Putin’s claim that NATO sabotaged a "peaceful settlement" with Ukraine early in the war. Whatever happened then, it is not too late for diplomacy in this perilous moment.

www.aaronmate.net

Youre citing Aaron Mate, who is a known liar.

 

[H. E. Panqui]

Youre citing Aaron Mate, who is a known liar.

You're citing MIC shit puppet$. Ime, MUCH worse lying scumbags than Mate..

 

[H. E. Panqui]

"...When the bilateral talks between Ukraine and Russia in Istanbul bore the promise of a negotiated settlement and even produced an initialed draft agreement, instead of encouraging and fully exploring diplomacy, the U.S. and its Western partners discouraged the talks.

How do we know? Because negotiators and officials from Ukraine and its Western partners who were there tell us so. The list of witnesses is growing, with the latest testimonies coming from Swiss, Ukrainian and American officials.

In March and April of 2022, Ukrainian and Russian officials met in Istanbul where they negotiated and initialed a “draft peace treaty.” Oleksiy Arestovych, a former Advisor to the Office of the President of Ukraine and a member of the Ukrainian negotiating team in Istanbul, has even added the previously unreported detail that Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky and Russia’s President Vladimir Putin were scheduled to meet on April 9 and a ceasefire was to take place. But instead of nurturing that promise of peace, the U.S. discouraged it.

“There are countries within NATO who want the war to continue,” Turkey’s then Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said. They want to “let the war continue and Russia get weaker.” And Cavusoglu is not the only Turkish official to offer that diagnosis of the Turkish brokered talks. Numan Kurtulmus, the deputy chairman of Erdogan’s ruling party, said, “In certain matters, progress was made, reaching the final point, then suddenly we see that the war is accelerating... Someone is trying not to end the war. The United States sees the prolongation of the war as its interest… There are those who want this war to continue... Putin-Zelensky was going to sign, but someone didn’t want to...”

America Is to Blame for the Failure of Russia–Ukraine Negotiations

More details keep coming out about the collapse of the Istanbul talks.

www.theamericanconservative.com

 

[Master Debator]

I remember when 'progressives' were decidedly 'anti-war'.. Ime, it seems many are now gullible stooooopid neocon warmongers...

LOL! at today's 'progressives' who line up with Mitch McConnell, Lyndsey Graham, Tom Cotton, etc. murderous shit puppet$.. ugh..

I'm anti war for the sake of furthering capitalist interests. War for the sake of self defense and sovereignty is another matter entirely. Trying to decontextualize the two is an openly frail. Are you afraid of context or something?

 

[Loulit01]

"...When the bilateral talks between Ukraine and Russia in Istanbul bore the promise of a negotiated settlement and even produced an initialed draft agreement, instead of encouraging and fully exploring diplomacy, the U.S. and its Western partners discouraged the talks.

How do we know? Because negotiators and officials from Ukraine and its Western partners who were there tell us so. The list of witnesses is growing, with the latest testimonies coming from Swiss, Ukrainian and American officials.

In March and April of 2022, Ukrainian and Russian officials met in Istanbul where they negotiated and initialed a “draft peace treaty.” Oleksiy Arestovych, a former Advisor to the Office of the President of Ukraine and a member of the Ukrainian negotiating team in Istanbul, has even added the previously unreported detail that Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky and Russia’s President Vladimir Putin were scheduled to meet on April 9 and a ceasefire was to take place. But instead of nurturing that promise of peace, the U.S. discouraged it.

“There are countries within NATO who want the war to continue,” Turkey’s then Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said. They want to “let the war continue and Russia get weaker.” And Cavusoglu is not the only Turkish official to offer that diagnosis of the Turkish brokered talks. Numan Kurtulmus, the deputy chairman of Erdogan’s ruling party, said, “In certain matters, progress was made, reaching the final point, then suddenly we see that the war is accelerating... Someone is trying not to end the war. The United States sees the prolongation of the war as its interest… There are those who want this war to continue... Putin-Zelensky was going to sign, but someone didn’t want to...”

America Is to Blame for the Failure of Russia–Ukraine Negotiations

More details keep coming out about the collapse of the Istanbul talks.

www.theamericanconservative.com

The American Conservative

 

[H. E. Panqui]

The American Conservative

The American Progressive Liberal Democrat

 

[H. E. Panqui]

I'm anti war for the sake of furthering capitalist interests. War for the sake of self defense and sovereignty is another matter entirely. Trying to decontextualize the two is an openly frail. Are you afraid of context or something?

Are YOU afraid/knowledgeable enough to admit that the 'unprovoked invasion' mantra [among many other lies] used to justify this proxy war to 'weaken Russia', etc., is a foolish notion only a childish thinker could swallow? Get to the root$!

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

If I threaten to break into your home and take it over unless you hand over your basement and garage, what peace talks can we have? Should I negotiate with you about what parts of my home I want to let you have?

If Mexico were threatening to invade the U.S., but they were willing to negotiate about which states the U.S. should hand over, would those be peace talks?

Peace is don't invade. Stay within your borders.

When Ukraine relinquished its nuclear weapons, there was a deal--the Budapest Memorandum signed by Russia. So, what kind of deal can you make with a country that repeatedly violates its agreements?