Did Buttigieg make a mistake not running for Michigan Senate/Governor?

[Felis Leo]

Think you have to eliminate some negatives. Think Democratic Party lost votes on a few issues. Images of chaos at the border and smash and grabs in Califonia weren't helpful to them.

Yes, but we have to understand smash-and-grabs happen everywhere in our country. They are not demonstrative of poor governance in and of themselves. They are evidence of economic anxiety that plagues the country overall. After all, are we going to pretend that Republican-run towns and small cities are bastions of law, order and good neighborliness, each a Norman Rockwell painting come to life? No, if our country's Democrat-run big cities are nests of crime and inequity, our Republican-run rural towns and small cities are absolute havens of drug addiction, incest, suicide, armed convenience store robberies and mass-shootings.

 

[CimpleMan]

I very much think he was bound and leashed and couldn't throw the brutal punches and low blows he wanted to; Dems taking the high road to hell and all that.

Midwestern nice as dual meanings. Not sure which one is applicable to him. Also, an issue of his exaggerations. Seems trivial when you consider Trump's, but from my viewpoint don't see as a positive.

He'd offer a bold agenda which is important. Would support him on that basis alone.

 

[CimpleMan]

Yes, but we have to understand smash-and-grabs happen everywhere in our country. They are not demonstrative of poor governance in and of themselves. They are evidence of economic anxiety that plagues the country overall. After all, are we going to pretend that Republican-run towns and small cities are bastions of law, order and good neighborliness, each a Norman Rockwell painting come to life? No, if our country's Democrat-run big cities are nests of crime and inequity, our Republican-run rural towns and small cities are absolute havens of drug addiction, incest, suicide, armed convenience store robberies and mass-shootings.

California the "Land of fruits and nuts" has been real meme level image for decades. Since California is decidedly run by Democrats what happens here can be problem for Democrats in other parts of the country. Is it right? No, but in close elections it can matter.

 

[Felis Leo]

California the "Land of fruits and nuts" has been real meme level image for decades. Since California is decidedly run by Democrats what happens here can be problem for Democrats in other parts of the country. Is it right? No, but in close elections it can matter.

Definitely. But then, since Republicans are in power, the inverse is true. Democrats and Democratic partisans should take the gloves off and attack, using places like Texas as examples of Republican governance, and point out that the only places worth living in Texas are run by Democrats. Everywhere else is an absolute immiserated Hell-hole good only for making sure your kids develop childhood leukemia from carcinogenic chemicals from petrochemical refineries leaching into the soil or drown in a flash flood because your county was too cheap to install warning systems.

The best defense is a good offense.

 

[CimpleMan]

Definitely. But then, since Republicans are in power, the inverse is true. Democrats and Democratic partisans should take the gloves off and attack, using places like Texas as examples of Republican governance, and point out that the only places worth living in Texas are run by Democrats. Everywhere else is an absolute immiserated Hell-hole good only for making sure your kids develop childhood leukemia from carcinogenic chemicals from petrochemical refineries leaching into the soil or drown in a flash flood because your county was too cheap to install warning systems.

The best defense is a good offense.

This discussion is starting to splinter like the one we had on how aggressive to go after Trump's and Republicans malfeasance compared to emphasizing a bold agenda.

Anger is motivating getting people involved and TO VOTE. So whatever it takes for Democrats to win elections i'm for. We're on the same page mostly.

Enjoyed the conversation. Have a good rest of your night Felis Leo.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Agreed. Buttigieg is both intelligent and clever. He is certainly feisty. But he stands for nothing. Without doing any quick Googling, does anyone know what Buttiegieg actually stands for?

We all know what Zohran Mamdani stands for. We all know a couple of his policies that can be named, like freezing the rent, free buses, or government-run grocery stores. We all know what Trump stands for. Mass-Deportations, Tax Cuts and casual pedophilia.

But Buttigieg? I know nothing of what he stands for. Hell, I have a stronger recollection of Ralph Nader's standing for consumer protection than anything I do of Buttigieg's principles or policy goals. In that respect, Buttigieg is a lot like Kamala Harris...a vague liberal mirage who certainly stands for not being a Republican, but when you actually try to grasp any real solid policy just melts away into ether. I would just tell him that he should avoid hugging Liz Cheney.

Is this a bad thing, though? Generic Dem. No strikes against him yet. All governors have some failures, all congressmen seem like they never get anything done. I can't think of any conventionally qualified Dem candidates that are untarnished.

I thought that same thin resume was something Kamala had going for her. There was nothing of substance to attack her on, and she was sharper than trump head-to-head. I still think that if she had just adopted some popular thing like universal healthcare she would have won, even without much of a resume.

 

[Felis Leo]

This discussion is starting to splinter like the one we had on how aggressive to go after Trump's and Republicans malfeasance compared to emphasizing a bold agenda.

Anger is motivating getting people involved and TO VOTE. So whatever it takes for Democrats to win elections i'm for. We're on the same page mostly.

Enjoyed the conversation. Have a good rest of your night Felis Leo.

Thank you, CimpleMan. You have a good night too.

 

[weaver2]

The cities that stopped prosecuting theft under 800 dollars and stopped enforcing no-camping laws in parks have a lot to do with the problem. Those same cities let people ride around on 5 year old temp tags, atvs in on the streets (very illegal) and so on. Take the city I live in, they pissed away millions on opening a city run grocery store that couldn't keep stock or employees due to out of control crime in the area it was in, and eventually had to close the store. That money would have been far better spent on additional homeless shelter beds, hiring more social workers for outreach into homeless camps, and services like detox and drug and mental health treatment programs to help people move from the streets back into housing.

There may be out of control crime in your city but it isn't because shop lifting isn't prosecuted. It is it is

Look at the polling, voters have zero confidence in Democrats governing ability, and that is in large part because of what they see in the cities and states Democrats govern - performative measures to appease special interest groups on the cultural left, social experiments instead of maintaining law and order, thousands of local government employees but potholes aren't filled and trash service is an embarrassment, parks you can't use because they are filled with junkies, streets full of uninsured/unlicensed vehicles because traffic laws are not being adequately enforced...

It'a a Republican mantra that the Democrats created the homeless problem. They didn't. The Courts seem to be a big part of the problem lately.

U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit ruled that the city of Boise, Idaho, had no right to cite people for violating its "urban camping" law. The law is unconstitutional, the court said, and enforcement amounted to cruel and unusual punishment.

Arresting people for sleeping outside is 'cruel,' U.S. Supreme Court affirms

The Supreme Court essentially affirmed a lower court decision that said enforcement of urban camping laws is cruel and unusual punishment.

www.azcentral.com

Governors in both liberal (Oregon, California) and conservative (Tennessee, Missouri )states have tried to get laws passed restricting homeless camping in public places and have had the courts repeal those laws.

https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/homeless-camping-bans/

I am a lifelong Democrat. For most of my life, Democrats were the party of good government. Blue cities were ran well, Democratic presidents delivered booming economies under Bill Clinton, and the life-changing ACA under Obama. However, during the last decade or so, the party has fallen into the same trap it did in the 70s and 80s, where it became far too beholden to the cultural left, and didn't govern well as a result. I like winning elections, I don't like it when reprehensible people like Trump are in power, but to win elections, the Democratic party has to start governing well again. Look at Minnesota and Colorado, those are well governed blue states, the party needs to look at emulating what those states and the major cites in them are doing right (Denver and Minneapolis), rather than swooning over a self proclaimed socialist running for mayor in the nation's largest city on a platform that would deliver a McGovern level loss to the Democratic party if we ran on it nationally.

How many elections do we have to lose to MAGA before the Democratic base wakes up and listens to what voters are telling us.

I agree that we need a candidate that has some youth and charisma and can get Democrats excited about voting. I don't agree that all of our problems are created by Democrats. Ever since Clinton the Republicans have been white washing themselves and painting Democrats as too liberal, too unrealistic, to bleeding heart, to wishy-washy, to out of touch, to far into cultural issues, not Christian enough, not tough enough on illegal immigrants, criminals, homeless, cheaters and the poor.

Here's a thought: how about we focus on finding and supporting a young energetic candidate, doesn't have to be Buttigieg but someone like him and quit listening to Republicans telling us what's wrong with us and how smart they are. Look who they elected.You really think we should be believing the people who elected him to be perceptive, knowledgable and assess character accurately?

 

[reinaert]

Buttigieg is a far left extremist.
He is way out of touch with mainstream Americans.

The McKinsey guy? Heh.

 

[reinaert]

Devil's advocate: What's so bad about Buttigieg?

McKinsey.

 

[Gatsby]

Devil's advocate: What's so bad about Buttigieg?

Nothing is that *bad* about him. There's just no good reason for him to be taken seriously as a presidential candidate. He doesn't say or do anything that other more qualified, more electable Democrats don't also say and do.

 

[Phys251]

McKinsey.

McKinsey?

 

[NJBob]

Buttigieg was a failure as the head of the Transportation.
And as a mayor.

Can you elaborate? By what measure was he a failure? Or is that simply your opinion?

 

[reinaert]

McKinsey?

There is a limitless supply of these kind of articles:

How McKinsey Destroyed the Middle Class

Technocratic management, no matter how brilliant, cannot unwind structural inequalities.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[The Brad Dad]

San Francisco really is a tarnished jewel. I think an actual progressive policy would have helped, I.e., make it as easy to build housing and high-rise apartments as it is in major cities in Japan, plus a housing-first homeless policy. So much of that city is basically suburban Hellscape sprawl. That city could easily be as densely populated and built up as New York, and be a home to a few million people.

Spot. ****ing. On.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Can you elaborate? By what measure was he a failure? Or is that simply your opinion?

Too many planes safely reached their destination without parts falling off. Maga hates competence.

 

[BirdinHand]

Yes, but we have to understand smash-and-grabs happen everywhere in our country. They are not demonstrative of poor governance in and of themselves. They are evidence of economic anxiety that plagues the country overall

Yep.

We have a band of young adults plaguing my area of NJ for the past several years - stealing high end SUVs, etc. and sometimes even entering houses and grabbing whatever they can.

It’s a “soft target” area - and they go into the high end housing developments and take advantage of people that leave cars and houses unlocked. Even the mayor had them on camera trying to get into his vehicles.

The value of vehicles is pretty crazy right now

 

[eohrnberger]

I think it’s far more tribalism than policy.

You are entitled to whatever misinformed and mal-informed opinion you wish to hold.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

You are entitled to whatever misinformed and mal-informed opinion you wish to hold.

It's an observation of the views you have held on here. Don't feel bad, I see very few posters on here criticize their own side or step outside their party's orthodoxy.

 

[eohrnberger]

It's an observation of the views you have held on here. Don't feel bad, I see very few posters on here criticize their own side or step outside their party's orthodoxy.

If you want to make such claims about me, then you really need to follow my posts more closely to do so.
I have, in fact, criticized ('Not a fan of') my 'own side', and I adhere to no 'party orthodoxy'. So there's that, which you apparently have missed.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

If you want to make such claims about me, then you really need to follow my posts more closely to do so.
I have, in fact, criticized ('Not a fan of') my 'own side', and I adhere to no 'party orthodoxy'. So there's that, which you apparently have missed.

Provide an example of where you agreed with the Democratic Party’s position on any major issue.

I can show examples of withering criticism I have made of Democrats in this thread alone.

 

[CLAX1911]

Buttigieg is too short to be president.

The shortest president in history was James Madison he was 5 ft 4 in tall he was also the fourth president. This was long before television and most people didn't really ever see a depiction of him with his height in person unless they were physically there.

Now that we have TV I doubt a 5 ft 8 man will be elected to president.

 

[SCrider]

If Bootyfudge is a top contender then the Republicans are resting easier.

is that a gay slur?

 

[Surrealistik]

Midwestern nice as dual meanings. Not sure which one is applicable to him. Also, an issue of his exaggerations. Seems trivial when you consider Trump's, but from my viewpoint don't see as a positive.

He'd offer a bold agenda which is important. Would support him on that basis alone.

To be clear, I completely agree that any aspiring POTUS candidate the Dems field has to be willing and able to aggress and be belligerent; we cannot pull punches anymore, nor can we afford to; the era of Democrats taking the high road to hell, being obsessed with decorum at their own expense, and tying their hands while the Republicans fight dirty and pull out all the stops must end.

Beyond championing an ambitious agenda, I do think Tim Walz is capable of no holds barred debate and attack, and he's demonstrated that lately with his comments aimed towards Trump et al. I do not think that his forcibly subdued appearance on Kamala's campaign trail is demonstrative; one must understand he was made to play a role, not rock boats, and subdue himself to fit neatly into Kamala's shadow.

I also want to be clear that I am very much open to a better candidate should any arise, and I do think it's very much possible for one to come along.

 

[CimpleMan]

To be clear, I completely agree that any aspiring POTUS candidate the Dems field has to be willing and able to aggress and be belligerent; we cannot pull punches anymore, nor can we afford to; the era of Democrats taking the high road to hell, being obsessed with decorum at their own expense, and tying their hands while the Republicans fight dirty and pull out all the stops must end.

Beyond championing an ambitious agenda, I do think Tim Walz is capable of no holds barred debate and attack, and he's demonstrated that lately with his comments aimed towards Trump et al. I do not think that his forcibly subdued appearance on Kamala's campaign trail is demonstrative; one must understand he was made to play a role, not rock boats, and subdue himself to fit neatly into Kamala's shadow.

I also want to be clear that I am very much open to a better candidate should any arise, and I do think it's very much possible for one to come along.

Realize now came off as dismissive of Walz. Don't have a bad opinion of him and he's someone who's worthy of consideration. Like the idea of a Governor of State who has to work with both Parties.

Like I mentioned, he'd put forth a bold agenda which we both want. Voting for him if he got Dems nod wouldn't be a problem. We all have our favorites, but shouldn't be so quick to dismiss other people's preferences. Apologize for coming off like I was.

Mentioned already i'm not confident at all Party will end up with someone willing to put forth an agenda we both seemingly want. We'll see...