Dems, your opinion. How do you think we should address the border mess?

Integrityrespec said:

This illegal border crossing is ridiculous. Either you come legally according to our laws as currently written or you don't get in. If you come ilegally you should be deported immediatley and cannot return for at least 5 years. This lawlessness is the fault of the left, they just want to find votes wherever they can. Get em in the country and give them citizenship, BS. Follow the law as is. If you don't like it, have the Congress do their job and rewrite the law. The democrats have the whole of government right now and yet they haven't touched the immigration laws, haven't done a thing for the Dreamers. They like the controversy, this is how they do business, keep hate and division alive.

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That law works about as well as the speed limit laws in my town.

Let's get real. The law doesn't address the problem. It's just bluster.

The entire immigration system and laws need to be re-written.

Integrityrespec said:

This illegal border crossing is ridiculous. Either you come legally according to our laws as currently written or you don't get in. If you come ilegally you should be deported immediatley and cannot return for at least 5 years. This lawlessness is the fault of the left, they just want to find votes wherever they can. Get em in the country and give them citizenship, BS. Follow the law as is. If you don't like it, have the Congress do their job and rewrite the law. The democrats have the whole of government right now and yet they haven't touched the immigration laws, haven't done a thing for the Dreamers. They like the controversy, this is how they do business, keep hate and division alive.

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Current US asylum laws allow anyone to ask for asylum once they step foot in US soil...

Lloyd Christmas said:

maybe republicans should stop lying and claiming the border is open, advertising them to come

To be honest, I don't see it as that big a problem. I'd take hard working immigrants fighting for their family and their lives and braving tough conditions for them, than whiny, racist right wingers who have no empathy and blame all their problems on everybody but themselves while ridiculously claiming to be the party of personal responsibility.

And republicans ask this of democrats, but what the hell is republicans plan? Build a wall? Seriously, how stupid is that? Shoot them? I wouldn't be surprised if many republicans would be on board with that. Lock them up and more punishment? That's all republicasn like to do but that doesn't work for anything. As long as republicans get power and continue to impede government and over no solutions, nothing will get done. So democrats need to bury republicans so things can actually be addressed.

The only probably long term solution is to help the countries they are fleeing from, so the supply stops. And maybe stop messing around with other countries propping up dictators so our companies can exploit them. Creating the shitty conditions that lead to them fleeing



That's a good one, That would help cut off the supply. But the thing is, republicans would never do that. They are all about teh corporations. THey also like the cheap labor that can be exploited and abused for the wealthy. That's why they never do anything when they have power to address it. It's only used to dupe their base into scapgoating illegals for the problems caused by republicans

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Wow, now that's a literal shit ton of projection and miss-characterizations thrown out off the hip. In response to such a simple, straightforward question.

Grandpappy said:

Do you agree there is a problem? How do we fix it?

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I haven't read the entire thread so this may be redundant but I would do this...

Increase ICE (or create a new similair group) and have them hit farm fields, construction sites, meat packing etc. Round up the illegals and fine the companies so much that they are forced to hire Americans (or work visas).

Rework the visa program to make it more difficult or unwise to violate the visa.

Have the fed crack down on known false SS numbers submitted by illegals...or non illegals for that matter.

Oh...and don't build a stupid wall.

That is all I have for now.

Integrityrespec said:

This illegal border crossing is ridiculous. Either you come legally according to our laws as currently written or you don't get in. If you come ilegally you should be deported immediatley and cannot return for at least 5 years. This lawlessness is the fault of the left, they just want to find votes wherever they can. Get em in the country and give them citizenship, BS. Follow the law as is. If you don't like it, have the Congress do their job and rewrite the law. The democrats have the whole of government right now and yet they haven't touched the immigration laws, haven't done a thing for the Dreamers. They like the controversy, this is how they do business, keep hate and division alive.

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Same stupid talking points. No facts, just talking points.

Buckeyes85 said:

Same stupid talking points. No facts, just talking points.

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Sounds like a right wing infomercial.

Lloyd Christmas said:

maybe republicans should stop lying and claiming the border is open, advertising them to come

To be honest, I don't see it as that big a problem. I'd take hard working immigrants fighting for their family and their lives and braving tough conditions for them, than whiny, racist right wingers who have no empathy and blame all their problems on everybody but themselves while ridiculously claiming to be the party of personal responsibility.

And republicans ask this of democrats, but what the hell is republicans plan? Build a wall? Seriously, how stupid is that? Shoot them? I wouldn't be surprised if many republicans would be on board with that. Lock them up and more punishment? That's all republicasn like to do but that doesn't work for anything. As long as republicans get power and continue to impede government and over no solutions, nothing will get done. So democrats need to bury republicans so things can actually be addressed.

The only probably long term solution is to help the countries they are fleeing from, so the supply stops. And maybe stop messing around with other countries propping up dictators so our companies can exploit them. Creating the shitty conditions that lead to them fleeing



That's a good one, That would help cut off the supply. But the thing is, republicans would never do that. They are all about teh corporations. THey also like the cheap labor that can be exploited and abused for the wealthy. That's why they never do anything when they have power to address it. It's only used to dupe their base into scapgoating illegals for the problems caused by republicans

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Just damn hilarious... The democrats control all the power switches in Washington, DC but somehow it's the republicans fault?
And then even more stunning the statement: "To be honest, I don't see it as that big a problem." Maybe turn on the news or search Del Rio, Texas
and see what you find!
A few for you.

CBS NEWS

In Overwhelmed Del Rio, Texas, Migrants Cross the Border Freely​

Indlib said:

Sounds like a right wing infomercial.

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It's all they have.

The Biden administration is proposing legislation that would give undocumented workers a path to citizenship. It would take about a decade, background checks paying back taxes, etc. But at present, no such path exists.

Now some may argue if you came here illegally, there can be no path to citizenship until you leave and come back legally. I get that argument, even if I believe it to be totally unrealistic given the millions who are already here.

But for all the uninformed republicans to keep spouting on about a flood of illegals that Democrats turn into voting citizens, again are apparently too stupid to know there is currently no such option AT ALL.

Grandpappy said:

Do you agree there is a problem? How do we fix it?

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But Grandpappy, It's not a crisis or a problem anymore . It was just a minor inconvenience that Kamala already fixed. Move on to a real problem. Donald Trump was rude. That should be enough to keep liberals outraged the next 50 years.

j brown's body said:

Furthermore, border crossing is self-regulating, based on the economy. For instance, despite his racist blathering, more people were crossing the border to leave than to come in for the 10 years leading up to Trump's election. When the economy was weak, and demand for labor shrank, they left. When demand for labor is strong, they come here.

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Is this post a joke?

Buckeyes85 said:

Let's be honest, for Grandpappy, the only solution to the border "mess" is to reelect a republican president. Preferably Trump. The republicans have made a living lying about the southern border- claiming it is literally wide open whenever a democrat is in the white house. So no suggestion now that Biden is the POTUS is ever going to be workable.

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Democrats are the ones lying, claiming there is not a serious problem here. This is very simple. Trump fixed it and then Biden broke it.
Anybody who doesn't agree is completely blind.

Grandpappy said:

Do you agree there is a problem? How do we fix it?

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The solution is LONG TERM. Fix the nations that they are fleeing AND assimilate them into our nation so as to be successful here............... The GOP and Trumpers want only short term/feel good solutions, and they won't work....

j brown's body said:

I flaggrantly speed every day in my car and walk my dog without a leash. Who among us is really innocent?

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You going 60 mph in a 55 zone is a little different than letting 13 million people invade a country illegally.

Lloyd Christmas said:

maybe republicans should stop lying and claiming the border is open, advertising them to come

To be honest, I don't see it as that big a problem. I'd take hard working immigrants fighting for their family and their lives and braving tough conditions for them, than whiny, racist right wingers who have no empathy and blame all their problems on everybody but themselves while ridiculously claiming to be the party of personal responsibility.

And republicans ask this of democrats, but what the hell is republicans plan? Build a wall? Seriously, how stupid is that? Shoot them? I wouldn't be surprised if many republicans would be on board with that. Lock them up and more punishment? That's all republicasn like to do but that doesn't work for anything. As long as republicans get power and continue to impede government and over no solutions, nothing will get done. So democrats need to bury republicans so things can actually be addressed.

The only probably long term solution is to help the countries they are fleeing from, so the supply stops. And maybe stop messing around with other countries propping up dictators so our companies can exploit them. Creating the shitty conditions that lead to them fleeing



That's a good one, That would help cut off the supply. But the thing is, republicans would never do that. They are all about teh corporations. THey also like the cheap labor that can be exploited and abused for the wealthy. That's why they never do anything when they have power to address it. It's only used to dupe their base into scapgoating illegals for the problems caused by republicans

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Good points. What I think might work and is consistent with international standards I learned a bit about when working in
the refugee/asylum field, is setting up camps where migrants would be held. If properly staffed, allowing access to advocates, it could meet our legal and treaty obligations, and allow us to screen in people who need protection and reject those who don’t. This is what has occurred in mass migrations in the past. Sadly, given current political realities and polarization, it’s easy for politicians to demagogue the issue. The media seems to have failed us as well, as I haven’t seen any mention of what obligations domestic law and treaties impose on us. This is the sort of thing one might see in a box next to a newspaper article on other problems, or in an expert explanation on a news show, but which hasn’t appeared in this context to my knowledge.

j brown's body said:

The system needs to be thoroughly reformed.

We have two barriers to this: a major political party has a base of white nationalists, so it likes to fire them up with fear about replacement, and their business supporters love the cheap, illegal labor.

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In 8 years, Barack Obama did nothing about it. I guess it was the racist half-white part of him we should blame.

Integrityrespec said:

So explain the governments own numbers of 400,000+ in just the past 2 months. We simply have no reason to just allow illegal immigrants into the country without prior vetting. It's expensive, can be dangerous and at some point we have to stop this careless and expensive behavior. We are allowing covid carrying immigrants into the country now.

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check this video starting at 3:42, for Biden's own words on it from 2015: watch it quick though, i am sure they will be taking it down soon as they can't allow anyone to see Biden say that.

Sorry Grandpappy, but neither Dems nor Reps are interested in solving anything. What else would they sling at each other coming election time? Funny/sad thing is, we are playing along as expected.

Grandpappy said:

Do you agree there is a problem? How do we fix it?

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Attack the primary cause of instability in these countries: End the War on Drugs.

Grandpappy said:

Do you agree there is a problem? How do we fix it?

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What do you think?

Grandpappy said:

Do you agree there is a problem? How do we fix it?

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Alright, I'll reply seriously.

First, I agree with what others have said about the border not being as big a mess as some on the right like to claim. However, I do think there is a problem, and we can do better. I suggest a threefold strategy:

1. For those with connections already here, and who are neither convicted nor suspected of major crimes other than being here illegally, give them a reasonable and doable path to citizenship. For the children who were brought here young and have grown up American, just make them citizens right now. They are already in all but name.

2. Renegotiate NAFTA. Trump had the general idea that this trade agreement is pretty crappy and needs to be reworked was correct, though his execution was poor. The main reason that we have so much illegal immigration is that NAFTA made it not only profitable, but downright necessary for many people living in northern Mexico and Central America. We got lots of money for the wealthy in this country and in Mexico, but this is the tradeoff currently. It is possible to rework the deal so that the wealthy elites get less but still make a profit, while making it possible to the poor in those areas to make a better living where they are.

One wrinkle in this plan is that climate change will force more and more people northward. Long term, we should look to structuring the economy to absorb a great many people. I suggest that we look to employ them doing two things: first, to swell the ranks of our armed forces, especially in support positions. Second, we should start building carbon sequestration plants, where these people could work. Perhaps as a third, we might look to changing precipitation patterns or perhaps artificial irrigation in the upper plains and the upper midwest, which are likely to become the new breadbasket of North America.

As a corollary, we need to start acting like an empire and a superpower. We keep the peace in the world, we exact tribute. Our larger armed forces will give us the strength to do it, the payments from other countries will help pay down our debt and allow us to employ more immigrants.

3. Step up surveillance and other measures at the border. A wall by itself won't work, and I wouldn't spend any more time on it. We can act humanely while catching more immigrants. These people are a potential resource, we can use many of them if we do it right. Currently, by treating them badly, we make them not want to get caught. If getting caught instead means they'll get water, a basic medical exam and treatment, food, and no abuse, we will start catching more of these folks and we will be able to figure out who we can use and what to do with those who aren't so useful.

Roger Duke said:

In 8 years, Barack Obama did nothing about it. I guess it was the racist half-white part of him we should blame.

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Seek help.

Roadvirus said:

We already do that. So, we'd have to apply increased penalties.

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We don't, though.

Yeah, it's a law. Like not spitting on the sidewalk is a law.

It's not strongly enforced. Else, YOU would enjoy a dine out at a restaurant with a meel cooked by a bunch of dudes that speak no English.

Lloyd Christmas said:

maybe republicans should stop lying and claiming the border is open, advertising them to come

To be honest, I don't see it as that big a problem. I'd take hard working immigrants fighting for their family and their lives and braving tough conditions for them, than whiny, racist right wingers who have no empathy and blame all their problems on everybody but themselves while ridiculously claiming to be the party of personal responsibility.

And republicans ask this of democrats, but what the hell is republicans plan? Build a wall? Seriously, how stupid is that? Shoot them? I wouldn't be surprised if many republicans would be on board with that. Lock them up and more punishment? That's all republicasn like to do but that doesn't work for anything. As long as republicans get power and continue to impede government and over no solutions, nothing will get done. So democrats need to bury republicans so things can actually be addressed.

The only probably long term solution is to help the countries they are fleeing from, so the supply stops. And maybe stop messing around with other countries propping up dictators so our companies can exploit them. Creating the shitty conditions that lead to them fleeing



That's a good one, That would help cut off the supply. But the thing is, republicans would never do that. They are all about teh corporations. THey also like the cheap labor that can be exploited and abused for the wealthy. That's why they never do anything when they have power to address it. It's only used to dupe their base into scapgoating illegals for the problems caused by republicans

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Your post fits your avatar

Grandpappy said:

You know that increased labor supply means lower wages, right?

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LOL....makes a UNION argument!

BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA!