GayLibertarian
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- Aug 16, 2010
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"...we intend to deepen our belief that effective public engagement around difficult issues facing our faith communities can include, and in fact, requires, our collective religious voices. From our own experience, we affirm that multiple religious voices praying together can serve our deepest common good."
Our conversations must continue where many end. Some of us may be suspicious of the religious voices and believe that these voices ought to be kept out of public discussion and policy. Others may fear that entering into constructive dialogue and common ground with the "other side" must be wrong, sinful or at best useless and naive. We disagree.
We are here both as individuals and as representatives of our religious traditions. We must take advantage of this unusual breadth, a bredth not only of religion and geographical views of each other, but also of social vantage points. We have experienced the reality that there is a multiplicity of religious voices in the world, and have come to affirm, importantly, that common religious, moral and policy grounds can be found in an exchange among these voices.
Were once many of us may not have cared to speak, much less listened, to others, now we must. We shall find outselves with good people, of deep faith, and we shall locate many important, shared values: justice, compassion, service, faithfulness, and love.
(I learned that night what many screaming heads have not yet—there are different schools of Islamic law, as there are denominations in Christianity, and Feisal is part of an extremely liberal one.
C'mon, GayLib...be serious here.
Con man or uniter?
Here's another portion of that eulogy I overlooked but comes right after the portion I quoted above (in case you haven't read it entirely):
Again, I know must are skeptics, but as has often been said, "Actions speak louder than words." Seems to me he's atleast trying to take that first step towards unity in building the community center. Only time will tell how genuine the intensions. But as a Christian who is a man of peace and humanity and as a person who has an understand of Islam - even just alittle - I'm willing to put forth the olive branch. From what I've learned of Imam Rauf, by all accounts there is no malice in him. I can't say that for certain, however. I've never met the man. But still...somebody's got to take that first step. Perhaps he will become the next MLK, Jr only this time from a religious perspective. Only time will tell....
Here's another linked article from a journalist from theDailyBeast named Brad Gooch. I think it deserves a read. For example:
Somebody ought to inform the author that the Ulama in all five mainstream schools of Islamic Fiqh (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Ja'fari) have ruled through Ijma that Apostasy, Sodomy, Adultery, and/or pre-marital sex are capital and/or corporal offenses. This Imam likewise does not oppose Sharia but only opposes the Penal Code so to suggest that he's a liberal is deeply offensive as by supporting Sharia he supports the criminalization of non-crimes; such as, apostasy and homosexuality, as well as, ridiculous property laws regarding inheritance and the like. And that may not even be the case, notice how the author conveniently leaves out which school of Islamic Fiqh this man is a part of? If it is any of the 5 mainstream sects then the authors assertions are out and out lies.
What's the issue? Who cares what this man believes and what his agenda is? If his mission is as nefarious as you claim and he desires to spread Islam and attempt to make America Sharia compliant, so be it. If he succeeds, the American people are the only ones responsible for making the decision to accept his beliefs as their own.
AgentF,
For someone who talks so negative about Islam, you sure know alot about it. So, I'm curious...where are you getting all this information? Have you actually studied Islam or are you pulling this stuff from various anti-Ismalic websites?
What's the source of your..."skepticism"?
And don't use 9/11 as an excuse.
We're all still grieving or angry over what happened that day in one way or another, but that can't be your sole reason for espousing such..."caution"...against this man and his religion.
What's your story? What's your deal? I'm just looking for some honesty and not just repeats of anti-religious platitudes you pulled from the headlines or any political faction.
Um so you are opposed to protests to the Nazi party as well? WTF do you mean what's the issue?
I'm asking what your issue is with a man wanting to impose Sharia Law in America. Many people want many ridiculous things, most of which are laughable(such as the appearance of Sharia Law in America).
Posting diatribes on an online forum isn't going to change anything. So the other question is "what are you actually going to do about it?"
His actions are building a victory Mosque for Islamic proselytization (that's what Dawa is) and his words are that the U.S. was an accessory to 9-11, that OBL was made in the USA, and that the US should be Sharia compliant.
My issue is that it is a man supporting implementing Sharia Law in America. It's not remotely likely to happen but neither is the possibility of the National Socialist rising to power, but does that mean that we shouldn't be condemning the National Socialist Party?
Glenn Beck said the same thing.
You are free to condemn as you see fit.
However, condemning actions is just energy spent focusing on negativity. Mother Teresa is a good example: when asked to support an "anti-war" rally she said "invite me when it is a rally for peace."
AgentF,
I'm curious...where are you getting all this information?
From The Encyclopedia of Islam mostly.
Objective Voice said:What's the source of your..."skepticism"?
Agent Ferris said:I'm an atheist, I dislike organized religion and have a special loathing for theocratic initiatives and today Islam is currently the largest threat to secularism in the world.
That's all I needed to know. Thanks for giving your non-bias, well informed opinion on the matter. :roll:
Bye-bye...:2wave:
Being purposefully obtuse is not conducive to a productive discussion. You know what I said and what my point was.I guess we should all just shut our mouthes then and not speak up against orgnanizations and individuals attempting to spread violent and oppressive ideologies. :roll:
Being purposefully obtuse is not conducive to a productive discussion. You know what I said and what my point was.
The Encyclopedia of Islam is the standard reference work within the academic study of Islam. And yes I am biased against religion, and the more I learn about Islam the more biased I become in opposition to it, that tends to happen through education.
I guess we should all just shut our mouthes then and not speak up against orgnanizations and individuals attempting to spread violent and oppressive ideologies. :roll:
I'm not being purposely obtuse, your clear point is that we should just shut our mouthes, if that is not your point then what is?
Which begs the crazy question, "If you're an Atheist, why do you care?"
Why are you working so hard to convince people of the evils of a religion when you don't believe in organized religion in the first place? You're a walking contridiction, son. By your own admission, what Islam does or doesn't do, believes or doesn't believe shouldn't matter to you since you don't believe in religion anyway. Bottom line here is you hate just for the sake of hate. I pity you.
But you don't know that for sure. My guess is your opinions are likely based moreso on what you've read rather than what you've experienced.
And if that is the case, I'd say you're no different than those who oppressed blacks in the days leading up to the Civil Rights era merely because of the falsehoods that were espoused of them for no other reason than because they were black.
[White] People were affraid of what they didn't know or of what they were too affraid to learn first-hand by establishing a relationship with those they mistrusted. It's a shame this nation seems to be going backwards instead of forwards all for the sake of fear and prejudicies.
Btw, here's an article from the NYTimes that provides alittle background on Imam Feisal's "American experiences"...not that you'd read it, but I've linked it here just the same.
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