Crimea votes to join Russia, accelerating Ukraine crisis.....

[MMC]

Crimea's parliament voted to join Russia on Thursday and its Moscow-backed government set a referendum within 10 days on the decision in a dramatic escalation of the crisis over the Ukrainian Black Sea peninsula.

The sudden acceleration of moves to bring Crimea, which has an ethnic Russian majority and has effectively been seized by Russian forces, formally under Moscow's rule came as European Union leaders gathered for an emergency summit to seek ways to pressure Russia to back down and accept mediation.

The Crimean parliament voted unanimously "to enter into the Russian Federation with the rights of a subject of the Russian Federation".

The vice premier of Crimea, home to Russia's Black Sea military base in Sevastopol, said a referendum on the status would take place on March 16. He said all state property would be "nationalized" and the Russian ruble could be adopted.....snip~

Crimea votes to join Russia, accelerating Ukraine crisis


This just ratcheted things up again.....according to news reports thi morning they were saying that Only like 38% of Crimea would accept this. Is that true? Now the Interim PM has said that they could not break off.

But that they could be given more autonomy. Do you that is Doubletalk by the Ukraine. How can you tell them they would have more autonomy but that they still have to stay as part of the Ukraine?

 

[PoS]

Well considering that Crimea's only land border is with Ukraine thats going to create some pretty awkward trade and commerce there unless they turn into like an island. Also, what about the people there that dont want to join Russia? Will they be forced out as refugees?

 

[Canell]

Yeah, who would have guessed. :lol:

 

[reinoe]

We know where John McCain stands...

I respect your dignity and your right to self-determination.

 

[Robbie Loucks]

Funny enough, we were just talking about how Ukraine was going to vote on this in AP Government 30 minutes ago. I'm not sure where I stand on this yet.

 

[Rainman05]

Well... that's that I guess. Crimea goes to Russia and this will be the end of this whole affair.. hopefully.

Really, it sux but what can you do. You have to respect the right of self-determination and that right is what gives the crimeans the right to choose their own fate. And they chose Russia.
That's that...

hopefully it stays in Crimea and the same thing doesn't hapeen with Khargiv and Donestsk Oblast.

EDIT: I may have misspoken and I don't want any misunderstandings.

This is just Parliament voting in Crimea. Unless the referendum validates this, which I think it will, Crimea is still very much part of Ukraine. The right of self-determination lies with the people, not some regional parliament. So this is just a "legal" framework and if the referndum later this month validates it... then that's that.

 

[Dezaad]

Crimea's parliament voted to join Russia on Thursday and its Moscow-backed government set a referendum within 10 days on the decision in a dramatic escalation of the crisis over the Ukrainian Black Sea peninsula.

The sudden acceleration of moves to bring Crimea, which has an ethnic Russian majority and has effectively been seized by Russian forces, formally under Moscow's rule came as European Union leaders gathered for an emergency summit to seek ways to pressure Russia to back down and accept mediation.

The Crimean parliament voted unanimously "to enter into the Russian Federation with the rights of a subject of the Russian Federation".

The vice premier of Crimea, home to Russia's Black Sea military base in Sevastopol, said a referendum on the status would take place on March 16. He said all state property would be "nationalized" and the Russian ruble could be adopted.....snip~

Crimea votes to join Russia, accelerating Ukraine crisis


This just ratcheted things up again.....according to news reports thi morning they were saying that Only like 38% of Crimea would accept this. Is that true? Now the Interim PM has said that they could not break off.

But that they could be given more autonomy. Do you that is Doubletalk by the Ukraine. How can you tell them they would have more autonomy but that they still have to stay as part of the Ukraine?

The news report about only 38% is wrong in my opinion. I believe a majority want this change. I think the Western powers have wound themselves into a tizzy on this because of how they wanted things to be. How things are is so obvious, it is almost embarrassing.

Crimea is Russian. Emphasis on the period.

 

[longview]

I am just waiting for Obama or Kerry to say, If we just let Putin have the Crimea, he will stop.
"Peace in our time", wait that sounds familiar.

 

[north korean]

the American media are heavily biased on this issue, it is the U.S., not Russia, that is on the wrong side of history.
due to more than one decade of Western media especially the U.S. media daily demonization of Russia and its leader Putin, most Americans are now brainwashed with upside down idea of what happening in the former USSR region.

 

[Carjosse]

The problem with a referendum is that it is hard to see it as fair when there are Russian troops there (you know a country with rather suspect elections), in the original Ukrainian independence referendum, a majority of the Crimea voted for independence. If they do vote for independence, Ukraine can just cut off all water and electricity to the Crimea.

 

[Cryptic]

The Crimean parliament voted unanimously "to enter into the Russian Federation with the rights of a subject of the Russian Federation".

Wow a 100% vote in favor! Then again, they booted out all Ukrainian and Tatar parliament members at gun point and gave their "vacated" seats to ethnic Russians.

As a side note, the Union was not that bold in regards to Kentucky during the civil war. Some, though not many, confederate legislators were allowed to vote- though the pre determined out come of the "vote" was never in doubt.

The news report about only 38% is wrong in my opinion. I believe a majority want this change. I think the Western powers have wound themselves into a tizzy on this because of how they wanted things to be.

Judging by the scenes in the streets, the west may well be right. Despite the fact that all the Ukrainian troops confined to their barracks and thousands of Russian "security contractors" and militia men in the street, there have not been alot of ticker tape parades by the locals.

What there have been is a certain number of people welcoming the Russians, but I dont think that level of enthusiasm mirrors 60% being in favor of union with Russia. Even the "Russians are 60% majority" census is 12 years old.

 

[Carjosse]

the American media are heavily biased on this issue, it is the U.S., not Russia, that is on the wrong side of history.
due to more than one decade of Western media especially the U.S. media daily demonization of Russia and its leader Putin, most Americans are now brainwashed with upside down idea of what happening in the former USSR region.

The Russians have invaded a sovereign nation, how is it hard to understand? Putin is a dictator whether you like it or not.

 

[solletica]

The Russians have invaded a sovereign nation, how is it hard to understand? Putin is a dictator whether you like it or not.

Territorial sovereignty is really just a technicality when the majority of the people in a region don't like the ruling govt.

 

[The German]

Crimea depends on the Ukrainian mainland for it`s fresh water suplies and electricity.

I guess many of the people in Crimea are not even aware of the logistical problems they will be facing as a result of becoming part of Russia.

 

[Carjosse]

Territorial sovereignty is really just a technicality when the majority of the people in a region don't like the ruling govt.

Well we don't know that, this vote proves nothing and neither will a referendum because if you haven't noticed there are troops form a country with very rigged elections there.

 

[Carjosse]

Crimea depends on the Ukrainian mainland for it`s fresh water suplies and electricity.

I guess many of the people in Crimea are not even aware of the logistical problems they will be facing as a result of becoming part of Russia.

That is why is say just cut them off if a referendum does succeed, let the Russians build infrastructure if they want it.

 

[solletica]

Crimea depends on the Ukrainian mainland for it`s fresh water suplies and electricity.

I guess many of the people in Crimea are not even aware of the logistical problems they will be facing as a result of becoming part of Russia.

Tough !@#$. That's their problem now, isn't it? They made their bed, let them sleep in it.

 

[DaveFagan]

The problem with a referendum is that it is hard to see it as fair when there are Russian troops there (you know a country with rather suspect elections), in the original Ukrainian independence referendum, a majority of the Crimea voted for independence. If they do vote for independence, Ukraine can just cut off all water and electricity to the Crimea.

It's an Island so we're supposed to think it would be hard to find water. If the Electricity is generated from Russian Natural Gas, I'd kiss someone's ass not to screw the supply valve shut. That would be Putin, by the way. If the "Referendum" chooses Russia, we must suport that. In reality, Russia has been the only Nation actually helping Ukraine. All others are involved in Machiavellian intrigues.

 

[Cryptic]

Crimea depends on the Ukrainian mainland for it`s fresh water suplies and electricity.

I guess many of the people in Crimea are not even aware of the logistical problems they will be facing as a result of becoming part of Russia.

Maybe a "Free City of Danzig" is the best solution? Crimea is independent, but locals would be allowed to claim dual Russian or Ukrainian citizenship and then have free access to what ever country they want.

 

[Cryptic]

It's an Island so we're supposed to think it would be hard to find water. If the Electricity is generated from Russian Natural Gas, I'd kiss someone's not to screw the supply valve shut.

Yeah, water is easy to find. Trying to find drinkable water might not be so easy. Likewise, my guess is that Russian can no more afford to turn off the Natural Gas spigot than the west can. In either case, the pipe line does not run under the Black Sea

 

[DaveFagan]

The Russians have invaded a sovereign nation, how is it hard to understand? Putin is a dictator whether you like it or not.

Try repeating that a hundred or perhaps a thousand times and you'll still be full of crap, but the morons will believe you.

 

[Carjosse]

Try repeating that a hundred or perhaps a thousand times and you'll still be full of crap, but the morons will believe you.

Putin is a dictator he was not legitimately elected, he has resurrected the police state, and meddles directly in the affairs of nations like Ukraine.

 

[TheGreatDane]

Well considering that Crimea's only land border is with Ukraine thats going to create some pretty awkward trade and commerce there unless they turn into like an island. Also, what about the people there that dont want to join Russia? Will they be forced out as refugees?

Crimea and Russia has a bridge project on the map and are now speeding it up. So Crimea wont be isolated, but directly connected to Russia.

 

[Dezaad]

The problem with a referendum is that it is hard to see it as fair when there are Russian troops there (you know a country with rather suspect elections), in the original Ukrainian independence referendum, a majority of the Crimea voted for independence. If they do vote for independence, Ukraine can just cut off all water and electricity to the Crimea.

And if they threatened to do that, and Ukraine voted against independence, you would consider the outcome legitimate?

 

[Carjosse]

It's an Island so we're supposed to think it would be hard to find water. If the Electricity is generated from Russian Natural Gas, I'd kiss someone's ass not to screw the supply valve shut. That would be Putin, by the way. If the "Referendum" chooses Russia, we must suport that. In reality, Russia has been the only Nation actually helping Ukraine. All others are involved in Machiavellian intrigues.

You need infrastructure in order to do that and it would take time to build that infrastructure and the Ukraine will have new allies in the West and then when the Russians stop acting like children they can open up relations to Russia again. Until hat happens Canada and the U.S. should impose strict economic sanctions on Russia and aid the Ukrainian Army.