Thank you for your gesture of good will. The posts to which you refer, by your good self, mention one or two 'swats' across the backside, and then six 'swats'. The number appears to be indefinite, and you have not stipulated the force used in a 'swat'. Post #100 is not informative in any way, other than to give the opinion that violence is justified and useful.
What I would like to ascertain is whether the blows are repeated, and whether they are intended to inflict pain. Perhaps you would be so kind as to give your opinion on those two issues - the latter in particular. IMO, repeated blows intended to inflict pain qualify as 'beating', whereas a 'swat' consisting of a sharp pat, capable of startling, but not capable of inflicting pain, does not. It is the infliction of pain upon what is essentially a helpless and dependent creature to which I hold a primary objection.
If I may...
Leo, you don't have any kids to my knowlege. This doesn't mean you aren't entitled to an opinion or that your opinion is invalid.... but it does point out that there are things you don't have direct experience with relating to the discussion at hand. I mean no offense when I suggest that theoretical knowlege and studies are one thing, practical life experience is another. If you can clear your mind of preconceptions and theory I will be glad to go over Spankology 101.
A swat on an infant's diaper-clad butt is almost incapable of inflicting any significant pain... it's only real purpose is to startle them into paying attention, or as a warning that further discipline may occur if they continue to disobey. More commonly a swat on the hand is used to stop them when they're trying to do something dangerous and ignore the parent's command to stop.
An actual spanking is (or should be) a different matter. Yes its purpose is to inflict pain.... temporary pain that goes away within seconds or minutes, but makes an impression on the mind that a hundred lectures will not, namely that bad behavior results in painful consequences (a lesson every human being needs to learn, because it is a fundamental truth of life).
A spanking is essentially a series of smacks or slaps on the buttocks. There is no "penetrating" or "follow-through" energy, it is all surface impact where the striking hand or switch hits briefly and then is removed from contact. It is therefore fundamentally different, in physics, from a punch or shove which accelerate into the target, whereas the spank impacts and arcs away immediately.
Methods vary... my own was to use a short length of leather belt, about six or eight inches long. Part of this is because my hands are large and very hard and heavy from growing up on a farm, and I did not wish to risk excessive impact... the belt is flexible and therefore has more "give" and is less likely to injure. For toddlers, a small hickory switch or a flyswatter is more appropriate given their small stature and more delicate skin.
Typically three to six swats is appropriate and sufficient if done correctly. Done correctly it leaves no bruises nor welts, nor any red marks that do not fade within an hour or two. It inflicts a modest amount of pain, but the pain is very temporary... it simply serves to reinforce the lesson that the behavior is unacceptible and that it brings unpleasant consequences.
In method, I would never spank when I was angry. If I was angry, I would send my child to his room to contemplate his actions while I calmed down. I would always give an explanation of why what he did was wrong or dangerous, and why it was sufficiently serious to warrant a spanking.
Afterwards I would always hold my child and tell him I loved him and that I hoped it would not be necessary to spank him again over this issue.
I always held that spanking was a "last resort after all else has failed" measure, or a response to a "capital offense"... that is, to one of two things: open defiance or a severe safety issue. Open defiance surely needs little explanation.... this is when the child blatantly disregards parental commands and does something in clear defiance of recent prohibition in full knowlege that it was forbidden. An example of safety issues would be running out into traffic, or attempting to do so, especially if done while disregarding parental commands to Stop.
I didn't start spanking my son until he was three and a half... I should have started a bit earlier. A toddler does not possess reason and cannot be reasoned with.... but they understand consequences if those consequences have been impressed upon them in a way they will remember. This can be difficult because toddlers tend to forget things quickly.... unless they have a strong reason to remember. A spanking tends to do that.
Children between 5 and 10 can often be willful and defiant and cause trouble "just because". If this isn't dealt with decisively and firmly it can result in having a teenager that is a hellish torment to his parents and everyone else that has to deal with him... so again, spanking can be a useful tool as a last resort in dealing with strong-willed children.
Typically between age 10 and age 13, the modest and temporary pain of a spanking begins to lose its hold on the mind of the child and decrease in effectiveness. Fortunately, by this age the child is beginning to acquire a certain faculty for reason; also the child begins to put high value on various activities such a social events and/or things like TV time, computer access and video games. Altering one's disciplinary methods to reasoning with the adolescent or restricting their access to these things they've newly come to value becomes a more effective tool for discipline at this time, and spanking is typically set aside.
If parental authority hasn't been firmly established by the time the child is 14, it is probably too late and unlikely that any measures will be effective in curbing the child's unacceptible or hazardous behaviors.
Spanking is NOT the only tool in my toolbox... I have also used time-outs, removal of privileges or a lengthy 'lecture' as disiplinary measures, but these methods work best when there is a "final resort" the child knows is coming if they remain uncooperative.
Discipline and the establishment of parental authority is but one aspect of childrearing. Other vital components include TIME spent with the child, listening to the child, expressing love for the child, praising and rewarding the child for doing good things, and otherwise establishing a relationship with the child where they understand their parent loves them and wants what is best for them, but also that the parent has final authority.
I have observed many other parents who used differing methods than my own... some harsher, some far more lenient. I consider my own methods middle-of-the-road, and frankly (by what I've seen) far more effective than either excessive leniency or excessive harshness.
My son is now 16. He is a well-mannered, well-behaved young man who now possesses a measure of SELF-discipline and SELF-restraint that many have told me they find most admirable... but it didn't happen by itself, I MADE it happen. The boy is now substantially larger than I, and strong as an ox, and I've trained him in martial arts from infancy.... if he resented my disciplinary methods he could probably take it out of my hide if he wanted to, since I'm getting a bit old and I'm not quite the badass I used to be. :mrgreen:
On the contrary, my son loves and respects me and tells me so often. He obeys me still, out of respect and love... because he is very mature for his age (also not an accident!) I give him lots of advice but very few commands these days. He has expressed his intent to raise his own children (when he has them) in the same manner that he was raised by me. When we encounter small bratty children who act like barbarians and ignore their parent's orders, he often comments that he wishes they were MY children for a month, so they'd get straightened out.
My son is neither violent nor timid, and does not lack in spirit or will or self-assurance... I see no sign whatsoever that spanking him as a small child did him any harm whatsoever... far to the contrary. He is vastly better behaved and more mature than many of his peers, though a large part of that is because I gave him responsibility as he was growing up and expected him to handle it well.
Contrariwise, I've known other children raised by parents who refused to spank. Some of them were okay I suppose... but many were holy terrors and spoiled brats and ended up in trouble with the law when they were older.
I stand by the method as tried-and-true, something that works very well when properly applied as ONE element in a total childrearing package, and the "experts" and shrinks can kiss my Southern ass, pardon the expression. :mrgreen:
Sometimes the old ways are best.