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Confederate flag, racist or heritage?

What are your personal views about the confederate flag?

  • 1. A symbol of slavery and racism.

    Votes: 83 63.4%

  • 2. A symbol of tradition and southern pride.

    Votes: 16 12.2%

  • 3. Never gave it much thought.

    Votes: 3 2.3%

  • 4. Depends. Could be either depending on who is flying the flag.

    Votes: 22 16.8%

  • 5. Both, a symbol of pride but reminiscent of slavery.

    Votes: 25 19.1%

  • 6. I am for or against it just to be contrary.

    Votes: 2 1.5%

  • 7. Other personal views on the flag.

    Votes: 12 9.2%
  • Total voters
    131

SNOWFLAKE

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Is the confederate flag a symbol of pride and heritage or a symbol of slavery and racism?

Ongoing debate, seems to have Americans divided:

That stat is from a few years ago, couldn't find a more up-to-date stats but has much changed? Consider:



So, support for the flag seems to be tied to geography or demographics? Actually, it may be tied to age:
Above data found here:

What the Confederate flag means in America today | YouGov

For a plurality of Americans, the Confederate flag represents racism. But for about one-third of Americans, particularly adults over 65, those living in rural communities, or non-college-educated white Americans, the flag symbolizes heritage.
today.yougov.com

So, the question posed today, how do YOU view the confederate flag?
 
SNOWFLAKE said:
So, the question posed today, how do YOU view the confederate flag?
Click to expand...

My hot take is that the most problematic part of the confederate flag isn't that it's racist, but that it was a rebellion against the nation. Back then, barely anyone wanted free slaves here. Almost everyone was racist and they were racist in a far more primal, tribal way than they are today.

As for people who sport the flag today - it mostly just comes across as a LARP. If you're going to fly the flag you might as well get all dressed up in boots and a cute little uniform to play the part since the identity means so much.
 
I take it you’re talking about the confederate battle flag, the flag of the confederate army of Virginia or what was known as the rebel flag in my early days on this earth. It’s not the actual confederate flag which represented the Confederacy. I never thought of the battle flag or the rebel flag as it was known when I grew up as a symbol of racism. It was a flag that represented the rebel in us, of protest. During the Vietnam War many protesters of that policy all over this country flew the rebel flag in protest over government policy. Disagree with a government’s policy, it wasn’t unusual for those protesting that government policy to fly the rebel flag. It was a symbol of protest against certain government policies back then.

Today, most Americans have come to view it more as a symbol of racism than protest. For an old foggie like me, that’s hard for me to fathom if not darn near impossible. But it is what it is. Symbols can have different meanings to different people. Those meanings can and do change over time. It does seem to me that folks always want to force their own meaning of a symbol on others who view that symbol differently. I suppose that’s human nature in folks trying to force others into their own likeness and beliefs.

I’ve always had a problem with others trying to force their own beliefs on me, that’s why I’m a swing voter. I like to make up my own mind regardless of what others think and or believe. By the way, this is the confederate flag.
 

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Does any white take pride in what the Confederacy really stood for? It seems like the ones who do are the ones more likely to be pretending that the Confederacy stood for States Rights rather than slavery and exploitation of black people. In fact I've had a confederate lovers try to explain to me how those slaves were treated like family....

Not a lot of real Proud Boys left among the whites.
 
It's about respect for fellow Americans.
 
Symbols can mean whatever people want. It's frail whites like you wanting to pretend that the Confederacy was about resistance to power (as they kept millions in bondage) that I find funny and hilarious.
 
The Confederate States seceded from the Union to preserve an economic system dependent upon chattel slavery. Secession was believed to be a state right and the infringement of that state right was motivation for taking up arms against the Union. That is one reason why, for example, West Texas cowboys suited up for a war they believed was an attempt to preserve the wealth and elite status of East Texas plantation owners. They were fighting to defend their state's rights.

The Confederate Battle Flag can be a symbol representing heritage or a banner expressing hate. Here's a teaser to a partisan but persuasive history lesson:

“Heritage, not Hate” is the familiar bumper sticker defense of the Confederate flag. It has evoked equally pithy responses, such as “Your Heritage is Hate” and “Heritage of Hate.” A moment’s reflection reveals that the Heritage versus Hate slogan war is a false dichotomy. There’s no reason why the Confederate flag cannot stand for both heritage and hate, or stand for a myriad of things other than heritage or hate. The Heritage versus Hate equation also generalizes a single interpretation of the symbol’s meaning to become its only meaning.

A symbol derives meaning from its uses and the perceptions of those uses. In the 156+ years since its introduction, the Confederate flag – or, more accurately, modern reproductions and graphic representations of the flag – have had many uses and acquired many different meanings. Understanding the complex history of the flag is essential for understanding the debates about the flag today. -- Myths & Misunderstandings | The Confederate Flag, American Civil War Museum, Richmond, Virginia. 2018

If you have five minutes to spare, click on the link and see how the article might inform your opinion.
 
Gozaburo said:
If you're going to fly the flag you might as well get all dressed up in boots and a cute little uniform to play the part since the identity means so much.
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And they usually do.
 
Perotista said:
It does seem to me that folks always want to force their own meaning of a symbol on others who view that symbol differently.
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I see your point with a big BUT. Flags still resemble something. There are those who still fly Nazi flags. How about a Palestinian flag? How about a pride flag? Everyone tends to be ticked off by this flag or that, but many people will fly a certain flag just to...............
Be contrary. Option #6. But no votes because no one will admit they are flying a particular flag just to be contrary.
 
Both.
It is a symbol of a racist confederacy that violently exploited blacks for financial gain.
And it is the heritage of treason and sedition against the United States.
Neither should be celebrated.
 
“Protest”

Given the fact the Confederacy explicitly went to war to buy and sell other human beings and brutally cracked down on those attempting to avoid its military draft, that is utterly nonsensical even by 1960s standards.

And yes, everyone is well aware of the protests trying to protect Jim Crow across the South.

The fact that people back in day were able to happily ignore what the CSA stood for doesn’t change the historical facts
 
Master Debator said:
Symbols can mean whatever people want. It's frail whites like you wanting to pretend that the Confederacy was about resistance to power (as they kept millions in bondage) that I find funny and hilarious.
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I don’t pretend about anything. The civil war was fought and was over 80 some years before I was born. Almost ancient history. What strange is whites from the north still wanting to refight the civil war all over again some 160 years after it happened. I don’t. It’s history, the north won and I think that was a good thing. As for the battle flag of the army of Virginia, it was indeed known as the rebel flag back when I was growing up. A symbol used for those protesting government policy. Are you trying to tell me all those who used the rebel flag in protest of the Vietnam War were racist? That is how you’re coming across.


This is a different era which over time how most look upon the battle flag of Virginia differently today than when I was growing up. I acknowledge that, but to me, the battle flag of the army of Virginia will always be the rebel flag, a protest flag against certain government policies. Why would you have a problem with that? Why do you have a problem with all the people who flew the rebel flag in protest of Vietnam and other government policies as time went by? Why?
 
Perotista said:
I don’t pretend about anything. The civil war was fought and was over 80 some years before I was born. Almost ancient history.
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And yet you chose their symbol to represent you.
Perotista said:
What strange is whites from the north still wanting to refight the civil war all over again some 160 years after it happened.
Click to expand...
I'm not a white from the North, I'm a Black and Asian first generation American from Miami.
I'm telling you how you come across when you choose to use the symbol of a white supremacist slave state as your symbol. Yes, me and many other people see you people as deplorable racists just like we'd see you as anti semites if you decided to use the Nazi flag as your symbol. Thats not a hard concept to grasp, is it?
I dont care what era it is. These are the consequences of choosing a symbol of white supremacy to represent you.
 
I not being contrary. The battle flag of the army of Virginia was the rebel flag for my first 30 or so years growing up. It was a protest flag flown by those who opposed the Vietnam War for example. We’re those folks being contrary? I’m just saying the rebel flag, it isn’t the confederate flag by the way, it never represented the confederacy. To me the rebel flag was a symbol of protest. Still is. How others view the rebel flag, that’s up to them. I have no problem with them viewing the rebel flag anyway they wish. I wouldn’t dream of trying to get them to change their viewpoint or belief.

But for me, it’s still a symbol of those who oppose certain government policies or actions.
 
I take it you think everyone who protested the Vietnam War and used the rebel flag as a symbol of protest was a racist. I got that.
 
The Confederacy did not oppose a government policy of human chattel slavery, they fought to protect it. Using it as your symbol of opposition to goverment policy begs the question of what sort of policies you do support.
 
No, I don’t have a symbol to represent me. My whole life and the way I lived it represents me. As for me, white, my family first arrived in the U.S. in 1652 from Scotland, originally from Brittney France which I still have relatives living there, then from Scotland on to America. My family had those who fought on both the British side and the American side during the revolution. We also had those relatives who fought for the north and fought for the south. Long history there.

How you view that flag is up to you. I respect your views and beliefs. So what you’re telling me is all those who chose the rebel flag as their symbol to protest the Vietnam War were a bunch of racists. I think that era dispels that belief, but is that what you believe, so be it.

I don’t have a symbol. What I’m saying is when I grew up the rebel flag was a symbol of protest used by one and all. Especially during the time of the Vietnam War. Impossible for you to understand, okay. But apparently you didn’t live in that era. If you think of me as a racist because of my view that the rebel flag is a symbol of protest, that too is fine. I’ll not try to change your point of view. But I think folks can have differing points of view, that is a good thing. That we shouldn’t be force into a one think mass like mindless robots which I think you’re trying to impose.
 
I dont care about you or your families history.
It is up to me and Im telling you how people see Confederate flag flyers.
You do have a symbol. You chose it as your symbol and are here defending it as your symbol. Why are you being frail about that?
 
Master Debator said:
The Confederacy did not oppose a government policy of human chattel slavery, they fought to protect it. Using it as your symbol of opposition to goverment policy begs the question of what sort of policies you do support.
Click to expand...
Not my symbol. But the symbol of those back in my youth who were protesting the Vietnam War. It was even used by a few to protest Desert Story. What a bunch of racist those protesters were. Come to think of it, we were fighting for the Vietnamese, Laotians and Cambodians. The Asiatic race or perhaps as some refer to them, the yellow race. Yeah, I suppose those protesters using the rebel flag as their symbol were racist. I’ll grant you that.
 
Okay, how people viewed the rebel flag back in my youth is different from how they view it today. I'm not defending anything, I'm just stating a fact that in my youth the rebel flag was view more as a protest flag against certain government policies and actions. That it is seen by most today as being a racist symbol, you're correct. Times change.

By the way, the rebel flag, or the the flag of the army of Virginia isn't the confederate flag. You have that wrong. It's a battle flag which in a way, why not choose a battle flag as a symbol to represent your protest.
 

The confederate flag is a defense of slavery, and later, anti-civil-rights. It is a flag of racism.
 
Perotista said:
Not my symbol.
Click to expand...
You beg to differ. This is me quoting you in your previous post.
Perotista said:
What I’m saying is when I grew up the rebel flag was a symbol of protest used by one and all.
Click to expand...
Why are you talking out of both sides of your mouth? What's that about? You chose to use the battle flag of a white supremacist slave state as your symbol. I dont give a **** if all your friends were doing it any more than I care if they were all jumping off of bridges. I ain't your daddy. That ain't my concern. I'm just relying the facts to you. The Confederacy was a white supremacist slave state. That was their battle flag. And that's your up above telling me you and all your friends chose it as your symbol.
I don't care why you happily waved around a white supremacist flag just that you did.
 
There isn't a Confederate Heritage. The Confederate States of America existed for two months before they started a war that led to their annihilation.
Unless one of history's worst blunders is a heritage.
 
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