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I'm Jewish. Here's what I recall from a Talmud story I read a long time ago.
Ishmael was a strong and wild boy, older than Isaac, son of Sarah. There were times that Ishmael would fight and harm Isaac, whom God and destined to be leader of the Hebrews. Sarah was troubled by this and begged Abraham to cast out Hagar and Ishmael. Though Abraham was torn about this, God told him to "listen to Sarah", so he did. During their travels, Hagar and Ishmael lost their way, and without water, Ishmael was about to succumb to thirst. Hagar cried out to God sent an angel who gave them a well of water and saved both. Ishmael, of course, was to become father to all Arabs. This is the prophesy that I think you are referring to. When this occurred, angels came to God and asked him to NOT save Ishmael, knowing the hardships and horrors that Arabs in the future would cause for the Hebrews. God replied that He does NOT punish someone for future sins.
Heya CC.Yes it is related.....appreciate you giving me that info. As that which you cite is also different than what the Christian Bibles say. I use the term Bibles plural due to the difference in wording with just that Holy Book.
I don't know if there is more info about her thru the Jewish Religion. I had some questions over it. Like where did Abraham get an Egyptian Slave.....also as you mention Ishmael would become father to all the Arabs. How did they come to this conclusion when the Egyptian Hagar was not Arab.
The story relates thru the Christians that Hagar took Ishmael and fled due to mistreatment by Sarah. In doing so she becomes lost and according to their religion. An Angel comes to her. Gives aid and tells her about the future of Ishmael.
I have had Catholics tell me that the Angel was Gabriel.....my question to them was how can any know if she was lost out in the wilderness and no one knew where she was. Also How did they know that the Angel was not Satan/Lucifer or one of his host.
Based on the story I read, she did not flee due to mistreatment by Sarah. It was Sarah's fear of harm coming to Isaac from Ishmael. Also, in the story I read, the name of the Angel was not mentioned. In fact, if I recall correctly, only TWO angels were ever named in the Torah. And it was God who stated that Ismael would become father of the Arabs. He became a nomad and his descendants became fathers of Arabian nations... making him the father of all Arabs.
What do you know of events that took Place with Hagar the Egyptian Slave of Abraham and Sarah.
What is your take when the story comes to Hagar being approached by a an Alleged Angel. Do you think the Hebrews got the story Right?
Also.....what is the Prophecy that was given to her?
Why is there different wording in Christian Bibles over this prophecy?
MMC, are you Captain Courtesy? I notice that Captain Courtesy edited the OP. How is that possible?
You gave MMC a "like." :lamo
I would just like to say that there is no real evidence to suggest, to ever suggest, that the jews were slaves in Egypt.
So the story of the whole thing is most likely BS.
What do you know of events that took Place with Hagar the Egyptian Slave of Abraham and Sarah.
What is your take when the story comes to Hagar being approached by a an Alleged Angel. Do you think the Hebrews got the story Right?
Also.....what is the Prophecy that was given to her?
Why is there different wording in Christian Bibles over this prophecy?
Can you cite the differences among Christian Bibles over the prophecy?
Sarah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[COLOR="#800000 Course the other question is......where would Abraham and Sarah get a Egyptian Slave.[/quote]
The slave could've been given as a gift (among other gifts) to Sarah by the king of Egypt.
[QUOTE][COLOR="#800080"]There was a severe famine in the land of Canaan, so that Abram and Lot and their households, travelled south to Egypt. On the journey to Egypt, Abram instructed Sarai to identify herself only as his sister, fearing that the Egyptians would kill him in order to take his wife, saying, "I know what a beautiful woman you are. When the Egyptians see you, they will say, 'this is his wife.' Then they will kill me but will let you live. Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you."[12] When brought before Pharaoh, Sarai said that Abram was her brother, and the king thereupon took her into his palace and bestowed upon the latter many presents and marks of distinction. It is possible that Sarai acquired her Egyptian handmaid Hagar during this stay. However, God afflicted Pharaoh's household with great plagues.[13] Pharaoh then realized that Sarai was Abram's wife and demanded that they leave Egypt immediately.[14][/COLOR]
I don't know them word for word.....but I do know they are written differently between the king James Version and the International Version.
I don't know them word for word.....but I do know they are written differently between the king James Version and the International Version.
I'm Jewish. Here's what I recall from a Talmud story I read a long time ago.
Ishmael was a strong and wild boy, older than Isaac, son of Sarah. There were times that Ishmael would fight and harm Isaac, whom God and destined to be leader of the Hebrews. Sarah was troubled by this and begged Abraham to cast out Hagar and Ishmael. Though Abraham was torn about this, God told him to "listen to Sarah", so he did. During their travels, Hagar and Ishmael lost their way, and without water, Ishmael was about to succumb to thirst. Hagar cried out to God sent an angel who gave them a well of water and saved both. Ishmael, of course, was to become father to all Arabs. This is the prophesy that I think you are referring to. When this occurred, angels came to God and asked him to NOT save Ishmael, knowing the hardships and horrors that Arabs in the future would cause for the Hebrews. God replied that He does NOT punish someone for future sins.
The New International Version has been translated to be better understood by this generation, I think.
King James' is a bit harder to read. They came out with a New King James version which translated to easier reading.
But the message are still the same. KJV is the one mostly used by scholars - that's what I've been told.
I would just like to say that there is no real evidence to suggest, to ever suggest, that the jews were slaves in Egypt.
So the story of the whole thing is most likely BS.
The conflict between the Jews and the Arabs goes back to Isaac and Ishmael. The Arabs believe Ishmael is the son of promise, while Jews and Christians understand from the Bible that Isaac is.
Heya Tosca. :2wave: Both messages are saying the same thing about that prophecy.....they are just worded differently.
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