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Combatants Account for 75% of Gaza Operation Fatalities

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donsutherland1

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Today, the Associated Press reported, "U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes said the overall Palestinian toll since the opening of the Gaza campaign on Dec. 27 stood at about 500, with about 125 of them civilians." Those numbers would indicate that 75% of fatalities in Operation Cast Lead are combatants.

Given the density of population, Hamas' human shielding, and the urban warfare required, the low number of civilian deaths relative to combatant deaths is extraordinary. To put things into context, during the Iraq War in 2003, combatants accounted for 71% of fatalities.

The population density figures are as follows:

Gaza Strip: 4,167 per square kilometer
Iraq: 65 per square kilometer

Source: CIA World Factbook
 
Oh give me a break! There's almost a million dead in Iraq. Are you saying there's 710,000 combatants in that country? And what is this "urban warfare required"? You didn't need to invade. And you won't go for any truce until you get some stuff done. In someone else's country. But like I said, you're both to blame.
 

Extraordinary is definitely the word. Such statistics, while commended on the surface, are clearly suspect. Especially when they are being reported by a biased source who also happens to be denying outside sources.
 




Are you suggesting that all 710,000 (it is actually 98k Iraq Body Count ) were killed by the US?

Fact is most of it was Iraqi on Iraqi... you failed multiple times here. :lol:
 

I believe that that references the actual war (against Saddam's government), not the insurgency that followed
 

Nice score, but it's still too much for a war whose consequences will be to turn Gazan people more islamist than ever
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Are you suggesting that all 710,000 (it is actually 98k Iraq Body Count ) were killed by the US?

Fact is most of it was Iraqi on Iraqi... you failed multiple times here. :lol:
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I got a "D" in algebra one semester.

Took it again the very next semester, got another "D".
 
bub said:
Nice score, but it's still too much for a war whose consequences will be to turn Gazan people more islamist than ever
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Oh, please. Don't pretend that any effort by the Israeli's to limit civilian casualties would satisfy you.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians exercise no control whatsoever.
 
shiznit770 said:
Extraordinary is definitely the word. Such statistics, while commended on the surface, are clearly suspect. Especially when they are being reported by a biased source who also happens to be denying outside sources.
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What is biased about this source?

How is this bias affecting his reporting?

How is this source "denying outside sources" and who are these "outside sources?"

Thanks in advance.
 
JMak said:
Oh, please. Don't pretend that any effort by the Israeli's to limit civilian casualties would satisfy you.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians exercise no control whatsoever.
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And neither does Israel.
 
JMak said:
What is biased about this source?

How is this bias affecting his reporting?

How is this source "denying outside sources" and who are these "outside sources?"

Thanks in advance.
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Should have said, "denying outside sources access to Gaza"

The report comes from Israeli military and political correspondents, not reporters amidst the conflict. Basically any news you see from now until when Israel lets foreign reporters into Gaza is biased.

Israel Puts Media Clamp on Gaza
 
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The figures are only for 2003 during the time of major combat. Many more casualties resulted afterward and the civilian-to-combatant ratio rose during the insurgency period. The majority of civilians who died during the insurgency phase died at the hands of the insurgents.

In any case, the point is that Israel is pushing the frontiers of what is possible in reducing civilian casualties during significant combat.
 
shiznit770 said:
Extraordinary is definitely the word. Such statistics, while commended on the surface, are clearly suspect. Especially when they are being reported by a biased source who also happens to be denying outside sources.
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In this case, the statistics come from U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes and not the IDF.
 
donsutherland1 said:
In this case, the statistics come from U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes and not the IDF.
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And the facts are still disputable. What added perspective does the UN chief have?

More than 500 Palestinians have been killed, including more than 100 civilians, according to United Nations figures. Nine Israelis have died since the operation began.
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As you must know, these kind of statistics take time. The AP source does not say 400 combatants and 100 civilians were killed. Otherwise we would see news sources all over praising Israeli precision.

As we were discovering in the other thread, it is not readily apparent who is being counted as an "operative" or "combatant". It is very premature to give such praise as I am confident future investigation will portray a far more realistic and sobering picture.
 
Why can't they reduce casualties by reducing combat?

And I don't agree with the dying at the hands of insurgents rap. They don't have that many car bombs. We, on the other hand, have a lot of weapons. I think an air strike causes more casualties than a car bomb could. We have a bomb that has a kill zone the size of a football field. Another thing, there's not that many insurgents in Iraq. Centcom estimated 10-15% of the combatants were foreign fighters. The rest were Iraqis. And they have every right to defend their homeland from a foreign force. A lot of the sectarian violence came from the death squads set up by the Shia government that came to power on the back of US tanks.
 
bub said:
Nice score, but it's still too much for a war whose consequences will be to turn Gazan people more islamist than ever
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Then KILL THEM FOR IT. I hope they all become "Islamist" enuf to fight over it, then extermination can proceed to completion.

When a people do something that means you need to WAR on them, worrying about their feelings is completely foolhardy.

When you decide to kill someone, finish, and kill anyone who wants vengeance over it too.

What do you think we would do if a Death Penalty inmate's family member really tried to free him ? ? ? We would kill that family member too.
 

How have you not been banned from these forums for encouraging hate and violence towards Palestinians?

Does anyone really feel this post has any other purpose?
 

Did we count graduating police cadets and pretty much every member of the Ba'athist party as combatants in Iraq?

You are comparing one vague quote from an AP article to a detailed study of Iraqi casualties. Without setting the same parameters for combatant and non-combatant the comparison is worthless.
 
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shiznit770 said:
How have you not been banned from these forums for encouraging hate and violence towards Palestinians?
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I think its because I'm sooooo good lookin.

Terrorists who voted Hamas in at 70% need to be exterminated.

Hate and Violence is what the palestinians have coming.

Reap the whirlwind third world bitches.
 

It should be noted for those who care about accuracy that the formula the the UNRWA used to arrive at figures cited in the OP was to consider any male over the age of 18 as non civilian.


PRESS CONFERENCE ON SITUATION IN GAZA
 
Now I know why Israel doesn't want western reporters into Gaza. Israel is ****ed! What their doing is ****ed! What their saying is ****ed! And the only way to defend their actions, is with lies.

Saying their trying to minimize civilian casualties is a croc of ****! They shot 2 navy shells that landed within 15 feet of a hospital emergency room. And last Sunday, they killed Palestinian paramedics as they were trying to administer care to the wounded. They've shot at ambulances, while telling us about this human shield garbage.

On Sunday, an Israeli raid killed at least four paramedics as they tried to reach wounded Palestinians. Ambulances have also been hit in the attacks, Palestinian sources said.
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Israel has had a blockade on Gaza for the last 18 months.

No wonder they got rockets.

Israel, what is wrong with you? You can't treat people like garbage for this long and expect them to say, "Thank you!"

It's more like, "**** you!"

You can't get any more detached from reality than Israeli apologists or government officials...
Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign minister, has said that there is no crisis and that aid is getting through,
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Not according to the people who actually give aid to the needy...
But just to be fair, Hamas officials...
Despite the crisis in Gaza, Mahmoud al-Zahar, a senior Hamas official, said the group was heading for "victory" against the Israeli military.
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...are simply nuts!

How the hell could anyone vote for them?

I guess when the assholes next door have stopped you from getting groceries for the last 18 months, you'll vote for anyone that calls them ****ers!

Israel, you are ****ers!
 
SquareMelon said:
It should be noted for those who care about accuracy that the formula the the UNRWA used to arrive at figures cited in the OP was to consider any male over the age of 18 as non civilian.
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I was not aware of that information.

In that case, the UNRWA is deliberately misleading journalists by offering numbers that are purely speculative. The proper communications approach would be to state that UNRWA does not have sufficient information to provide figures and to refrain from any kind of speculation until proper information is available.

In my opinion, the above raises grave questions about UNRWA's credibility with respect to the state of affairs in the Gaza Strip.
 
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