Jomiarias
Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2009
- Messages
- 95
- Reaction score
- 11
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Slightly Liberal
I saw just when I entered this forum a thread in the Latin American section that says "Columbia is facist". I am colombian, I am one of the 84% of the population of my country that supports the best president we have had in the last 30 years: Álvaro Uribe Vélez. Unlike the user who created the thread (or ThreaT because it is, maybe he is part of the virtual front of FARC) I will present arguments to support my position.
- Conservative Party, similar to the Republican Party, in the "Right".
- Liberal Party, similar to the Democratic Party, in the "Left".
There were also third parties, many of them, but they, as the US third parties were powerless. Also, many of them were socialist and communist parties.
In 1990, Cesar Gaviria (Liberal) was elected president. He introduced neoliberalism to Colombia. Changed the constitution in 1991 and killed the most powerful and the richest drugdealer and terrorist of the country and the world, Pablo Escobar. With the death of Escobar, FARC took control of the drugs in most of the country. FARC (Also known as FART) was a marxist organization in the past, however, with the fall of the Sovietic Union, they had to search a new method to manage the guerrillas. They started to kidnap innocent people and force their families to give them money so they would free the hostages. With the fall of Escobar and of the powerful "carteles", the guerrillas (FART and ELN) started their own careers in drugdealing.
However, some drugdealers previously allied with Escobar, seeing that the guerrillas had been controlling the drugdealing allied with victims of the guerrillas who wanted vengance and created the AUC, most known as the paramilitaries.
There was one victim of the guerrillas who wanted to vengate the death of his father but knew the correct way to vengate, that was in politics, not in paramilitary groups, he was Alvaro Uribe, who joined the Liberal Party.
After Cesar Gaviria's presidency, Ernesto Samper, also from the Liberal Party won the presidency, but his government was very different to Gaviria's. First of all, his campaign was involved with drugdealers from Cali's cartel, the economy was in a crisis, the guerrillas and paramilitaries were taking towns, killing and kidnapping people in all the country, drug cultivation and traffic grew. Making liberals to vote for the conservative candidate Andrés Pastrana for the next election.
Andrés Pastrana won with the purpose to make peace with FARC. The guerrilla said that they would only negotiate peace if the government gave to them the control of five towns in the south of the country. Pastrana did it, but FARC used the towns for drug-cultiving and center for criminal activities like kidnapping civilians. They made stronger and made horrible crimes, whose victims turned into paramilitaries that also grew a lot. Finally, FARC betrayed the government and never went to the negotiations, so president Pastrana, furious, gave 24 hours to guerrillians to left the towns and invaded them, recovering control in the zone. This was the fourth time that FARC betrayed the people.
Serpa planned to continue Pastrana's failed policies to negotiate peace, Uribe planned to battle guerrillas and paramilitaries battling with them.
The conservative party, that was weakened by Pastrana, chose to support Uribe. Some of the most right-wing conservatives and those who still supported Pastrana, left their party and supported other minor candidates.
The liberal party, divided between Serpists and Uribists, couldn't unite.
With support of 40% of liberals and 80% of conservatives, Uribe began appearing as winner in most polls.
But the disorder wasn't only in mayor parties, most independent parties that were liberal, conservative or moderate, also supported Uribe, adding some points to the candidate in polls.
Also, many communist and socialist minor parties merged into a single party, the Independent Democratic Pole.
With Uribe supported by most parties of the country, Serpa weakened and the candidate of the left, Garzon, obtaining force in the allways powerless and divided left, the elections were clear and Uribe won with 54% of the votes.
The day of Uribe's possession, FARC attempted agaisnt his life in Bogotá and the army started their movements, the war had been announced.
In 2003 a commander of FARC, Simón Trinidad was captured by the army, being the first one in all the history of Colombia. The government recovered control in many areas of the country. The popularity of Uribe grew and grew, mostly in rural areas previously controled by FARC.
In 2004, the congress approved a modification to the constitution that accepted presidential reelection. Uribe started his campaing for 2006 election.
The opposition, headed by the liberal party was very angry. That party changed their views and officially adopted socialdemocracy, and expeled all their members who were supporting Uribe's reelection. Some of the "fired" liberals joined minor parties, mainly the Radical Change Party, formed in the 90's by ex-liberals and ex-conservatives who wanted to reconciliate the two parties.
Most "fired" liberals didn't joined minor parties, led by Juan Manuel Santos, they created an uribist party, called Party of the U. The U obviously means Uribe, but the party claims that it means Unity.
The Independent Democratic Pole merged with all the other minor leftist parties, forming a single one, the new Alternative Democratic Pole.
The Conservative Party, the Party of the U and Radical Change, along with other minor movements, supported Uribe again.
The Liberal Party chose Horacio Serpa to run again for the election, something that wasn't well recieved by many liberals in the country.
The Alternative Democratic Pole chose Carlos Gaviria, former college teacher of Alvaro Uribe.
Many liberals who disliked Uribe and Serpa, voted for Carlos Gaviria, making a historical election.
Uribe obtained the first place, with 62% of the votes. Gavira was second and Serpa third. Placing the Alternative Democratic Pole as the first important communist or socialist party and the main opposition party.
Uribe's second government is defined by a small change in his politics. He continued attacking millitary, but also created social ways to finish guerrillas and paramilitaries. He offered the possibility to paramilitaries and guerrillas to return to their previous lifes. The guerrillas and paramilitaries that left their terrorist organizations, have access to lower years of prision and they recieve benefits like house and education by the government.
In 2008, 3 of the 7 members of FARC's secretariat were killed, the army rescued 15 hostages in an operation known as "Operación Jaque" without using a single gun.
More than 50.000 terrorists have given up and returned to their normal life.
Aditionally, Uribe proposed that guerrilla members that left their organizations and bring hostages to freedom, will recieve special protection and very high cuantities of money. The first guerrilla member who did that was sent to France. In January of 2009, three members of FARC also left with hostages.
I think that this new road that Uribe is taking is very good, everyday we see more people returning to freedom, less terrorist menaces. This is not tipical of a fascist president.
-------|--------- fascism ------------ nazism
-------|------------|--------------------|
-------| ------ conservatism --- neoconservatism
-------|------------|--------------------|
----liberalism --- uribism ------------ neoliberalism
-------|------------|--------------------|
--------------------|
---------------libertarianism
--------------------|
-------------rightist anarchism
Maybe that chart can help to understand the real position of uribism in the right. In the country, he was supported by moderate liberals and conservatives when he began, while the most radical sectors in those parties opposed to him. Also, he is very neoliberal.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT LATIN AMERICAN LEADER CAN BE REALLY COMPARED TO HITLER?
Who is red, lives angry and doesn't shut up?:2mad::allhail: Yes, Hugo Chavez.
HITLER: Was captured by justice before becoming a dictator.
CHAVEZ: Was captured by justice before becoming a dictator.
HITLER: Dreamt with the reconstruction of the German Empire.
CHAVEZ: Dreams with the reconstruction of the Big Colombia Republic (Colombia, Ecuador, Panamá, Venezuela, part of Guyana, part of Brazil.)
HITLER: Used color red.
CHAVEZ: Uses color red.
HITLER: Hated the other empires of Europe.
CHAVEZ: Hates US imperialism.
HITLER: Wanted to spread his Nazism/Fascism in all Europe.
CHAVEZ: Wants to spread his Bolivarianism in all Latin America.
History of Colombia during the 90s
During the XX Century, Colombia's politics were almost equal to those of the USA, we had two main parties:- Conservative Party, similar to the Republican Party, in the "Right".
- Liberal Party, similar to the Democratic Party, in the "Left".
There were also third parties, many of them, but they, as the US third parties were powerless. Also, many of them were socialist and communist parties.
In 1990, Cesar Gaviria (Liberal) was elected president. He introduced neoliberalism to Colombia. Changed the constitution in 1991 and killed the most powerful and the richest drugdealer and terrorist of the country and the world, Pablo Escobar. With the death of Escobar, FARC took control of the drugs in most of the country. FARC (Also known as FART) was a marxist organization in the past, however, with the fall of the Sovietic Union, they had to search a new method to manage the guerrillas. They started to kidnap innocent people and force their families to give them money so they would free the hostages. With the fall of Escobar and of the powerful "carteles", the guerrillas (FART and ELN) started their own careers in drugdealing.
However, some drugdealers previously allied with Escobar, seeing that the guerrillas had been controlling the drugdealing allied with victims of the guerrillas who wanted vengance and created the AUC, most known as the paramilitaries.
There was one victim of the guerrillas who wanted to vengate the death of his father but knew the correct way to vengate, that was in politics, not in paramilitary groups, he was Alvaro Uribe, who joined the Liberal Party.
After Cesar Gaviria's presidency, Ernesto Samper, also from the Liberal Party won the presidency, but his government was very different to Gaviria's. First of all, his campaign was involved with drugdealers from Cali's cartel, the economy was in a crisis, the guerrillas and paramilitaries were taking towns, killing and kidnapping people in all the country, drug cultivation and traffic grew. Making liberals to vote for the conservative candidate Andrés Pastrana for the next election.
Andrés Pastrana won with the purpose to make peace with FARC. The guerrilla said that they would only negotiate peace if the government gave to them the control of five towns in the south of the country. Pastrana did it, but FARC used the towns for drug-cultiving and center for criminal activities like kidnapping civilians. They made stronger and made horrible crimes, whose victims turned into paramilitaries that also grew a lot. Finally, FARC betrayed the government and never went to the negotiations, so president Pastrana, furious, gave 24 hours to guerrillians to left the towns and invaded them, recovering control in the zone. This was the fourth time that FARC betrayed the people.
THE ELECTIONS THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING
While Pastrana tried to recover control, but his army lost and lost battles agaisnt paramilitaries and guerrillas, two liberal candidates were fighting to obtain their party's support for the presidential elections: Horacio Serpa and Alvaro Uribe. Serpa won the candidature and support of the liberal party. Uribe didn't stopped and postulated himself as Independent. Serpa planned to continue Pastrana's failed policies to negotiate peace, Uribe planned to battle guerrillas and paramilitaries battling with them.
The conservative party, that was weakened by Pastrana, chose to support Uribe. Some of the most right-wing conservatives and those who still supported Pastrana, left their party and supported other minor candidates.
The liberal party, divided between Serpists and Uribists, couldn't unite.
With support of 40% of liberals and 80% of conservatives, Uribe began appearing as winner in most polls.
But the disorder wasn't only in mayor parties, most independent parties that were liberal, conservative or moderate, also supported Uribe, adding some points to the candidate in polls.
Also, many communist and socialist minor parties merged into a single party, the Independent Democratic Pole.
With Uribe supported by most parties of the country, Serpa weakened and the candidate of the left, Garzon, obtaining force in the allways powerless and divided left, the elections were clear and Uribe won with 54% of the votes.
The day of Uribe's possession, FARC attempted agaisnt his life in Bogotá and the army started their movements, the war had been announced.
In 2003 a commander of FARC, Simón Trinidad was captured by the army, being the first one in all the history of Colombia. The government recovered control in many areas of the country. The popularity of Uribe grew and grew, mostly in rural areas previously controled by FARC.
In 2004, the congress approved a modification to the constitution that accepted presidential reelection. Uribe started his campaing for 2006 election.
The opposition, headed by the liberal party was very angry. That party changed their views and officially adopted socialdemocracy, and expeled all their members who were supporting Uribe's reelection. Some of the "fired" liberals joined minor parties, mainly the Radical Change Party, formed in the 90's by ex-liberals and ex-conservatives who wanted to reconciliate the two parties.
Most "fired" liberals didn't joined minor parties, led by Juan Manuel Santos, they created an uribist party, called Party of the U. The U obviously means Uribe, but the party claims that it means Unity.
The Independent Democratic Pole merged with all the other minor leftist parties, forming a single one, the new Alternative Democratic Pole.
The Conservative Party, the Party of the U and Radical Change, along with other minor movements, supported Uribe again.
The Liberal Party chose Horacio Serpa to run again for the election, something that wasn't well recieved by many liberals in the country.
The Alternative Democratic Pole chose Carlos Gaviria, former college teacher of Alvaro Uribe.
Many liberals who disliked Uribe and Serpa, voted for Carlos Gaviria, making a historical election.
Uribe obtained the first place, with 62% of the votes. Gavira was second and Serpa third. Placing the Alternative Democratic Pole as the first important communist or socialist party and the main opposition party.
FINALLY...WHY ISN'T COLOMBIA A FASCIST COUNTRY
Uribe's second government is defined by a small change in his politics. He continued attacking millitary, but also created social ways to finish guerrillas and paramilitaries. He offered the possibility to paramilitaries and guerrillas to return to their previous lifes. The guerrillas and paramilitaries that left their terrorist organizations, have access to lower years of prision and they recieve benefits like house and education by the government.
In 2008, 3 of the 7 members of FARC's secretariat were killed, the army rescued 15 hostages in an operation known as "Operación Jaque" without using a single gun.
More than 50.000 terrorists have given up and returned to their normal life.
Aditionally, Uribe proposed that guerrilla members that left their organizations and bring hostages to freedom, will recieve special protection and very high cuantities of money. The first guerrilla member who did that was sent to France. In January of 2009, three members of FARC also left with hostages.
I think that this new road that Uribe is taking is very good, everyday we see more people returning to freedom, less terrorist menaces. This is not tipical of a fascist president.
-------|--------- fascism ------------ nazism
-------|------------|--------------------|
-------| ------ conservatism --- neoconservatism
-------|------------|--------------------|
----liberalism --- uribism ------------ neoliberalism
-------|------------|--------------------|
--------------------|
---------------libertarianism
--------------------|
-------------rightist anarchism
Maybe that chart can help to understand the real position of uribism in the right. In the country, he was supported by moderate liberals and conservatives when he began, while the most radical sectors in those parties opposed to him. Also, he is very neoliberal.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT LATIN AMERICAN LEADER CAN BE REALLY COMPARED TO HITLER?
Who is red, lives angry and doesn't shut up?:2mad::allhail: Yes, Hugo Chavez.
HITLER: Was captured by justice before becoming a dictator.
CHAVEZ: Was captured by justice before becoming a dictator.
HITLER: Dreamt with the reconstruction of the German Empire.
CHAVEZ: Dreams with the reconstruction of the Big Colombia Republic (Colombia, Ecuador, Panamá, Venezuela, part of Guyana, part of Brazil.)
HITLER: Used color red.
CHAVEZ: Uses color red.
HITLER: Hated the other empires of Europe.
CHAVEZ: Hates US imperialism.
HITLER: Wanted to spread his Nazism/Fascism in all Europe.
CHAVEZ: Wants to spread his Bolivarianism in all Latin America.
Last edited:
