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Splendid! I can't wait!!I am going to give you all a rare glimpse into my private belief system. Why? Because I smoked a lot of weed about 10 minutes ago. And this seems like a good idea.
Interesting beliefs... I'm just curious as to how you reconcile, in your mind, intelligent life resulting from a non-intelligent source... and to define what 'quantum chaos' is...I don't believe in the traditional concept of God, or Gods (plural). More like I subscribe to Carl Sagan's observation. We are the Universe contemplating itself. The Universe operates on a cycle of expansion and contraction. And life began on the quantum level, in it's chaos the first spark of life happened, and grew from there.
Yes, you can, because they ARE beliefs.Those are just ideas I subscribe to, I can't even call them beliefs.
Irrelevant. All that makes something a belief is your acceptance of a particular claim/statement/argument as a true.Because to believe something is to give it power over you. And none of these ideas hold power over me.
This is a philosophical discussion concerning the particular religion which you have posited. Evidence for it is already present; you simply find certain evidence convincing over other evidence. You will never find any proof, since open functional systems such as Philosophy and Religion don't make use of proofs.A little evidence, or a more plausible scenario, and I'll change my mind.
Splendid! I can't wait!!
Interesting beliefs... I'm just curious as to how you reconcile, in your mind, intelligent life resulting from a non-intelligent source... and to define what 'quantum chaos' is...
Yes, you can, because they ARE beliefs.
Irrelevant. All that makes something a belief is your acceptance of a particular claim/statement/argument as a true.
This is a philosophical discussion concerning the particular religion which you have posited. Evidence for it is already present; you simply find certain evidence convincing over other evidence. You will never find any proof, since open functional systems such as Philosophy and Religion don't make use of proofs.
No one cares...
You chose to put it out there... I gave my thoughts on it, and was ready to have a deeper dialogue about it, but it seems like you aren't interested, however...
Pity...
I also think of Jesus as symbolic, and as a mystical savior. However, I believe he was a real person, just not all that great. Loving your enemies and turning the other cheek is a good way to get killed.
I think Jesus was just one of many prophets/mystical healers, and they have existed in all times and all places. Special in being different from most people, but not all that special because there have been shamans, etc., everywhere humans have been.
Jesus owes his current fame to the Roman Empire. If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. At this point, I feel certain that was the only reason any of us heard of him. Rome converted to Christianity because they thought Jesus would help them win wars. And I guess he did, because they won a lot of wars! Then they forced Christianity on the poor pagans that they conquered.
Of course it was a paganized version of Christianity, not resembling the original Jewish sect.
I could probably accept Jesus as my savior, without thinking much of what he supposedly taught, and without believing the tons of BS mythology. He is a symbol of the personal helper god, the Higher Self.
One thing I don't understand though is why it's such a big deal that he was crucified. How many millions of suckers have been crucified, tortured, executed in horrible ways? The fact that he suffered doesn't make him special at all. When people are amazed that he suffered, I feel like they never knew anyone who died from cancer, for example.
So, I understand why people make a big deal out of the Jesus symbol. But I don't understand why they don't know it's just a symbol.
I am going to give you all a rare glimpse into my private belief system. Why? Because I smoked a lot of weed about 10 minutes ago. And this seems like a good idea.
I don't believe in the traditional concept of God, or Gods (plural). More like I subscribe to Carl Sagan's observation. We are the Universe contemplating itself. The Universe operates on a cycle of expansion and contraction. And life began on the quantum level, in it's chaos the first spark of life happened, and grew from there.
Those are just ideas I subscribe to, I can't even call them beliefs. Because to believe something is to give it power over you. And none of these ideas hold power over me. A little evidence, or a more plausible scenario, and I'll change my mind.
But I still think Jesus Christ is real. Not the son of God, but one of the greatest philosophers and teachers the world has ever known.
Can I prove he was born? No. Can I prove historically, he was a person who existed and lead a life as described in the Bible. No.
How can I say he is Real.
The same way Super man is real. The same way the version of George Washington we teach in school is real. Human imagination makes them real. Whether Jesus was a real boy, or the work of Roman Priests, it doesn't matter. His story, and ideas changed the world. Not because people believed he was the son of god. But because of his teachings inspire the best in each of us.
Anyone who has seriously studied history, will realize, none of it's concrete. The people of each time create their own history based on what they want passed down. Just as we create our perfect versions of ourselves on social media. Because that is what will be recorded of us in history.
In 2,000 years who is to say, people will believe Captain America was a real person. And would that be such a bad thing?
hehe...two things:
1) As a Christian, I of course believe in a bit of a different direction than you, but I truly appreciate your approach. There is wisdom to be gained from every religion in the world, even if you don't necessarily believe in the deity, and I sincerely applaud your ability to say "I don't believe in their god, but I see the value of their philosophy". It demonstrates an open mind. Props.
2) What strain of herb are you enjoying? Seems epic, would like to get some up here....hehe...
DelaHaze, I got it from BCCannabisStores.com it boasts a colossal 23% thc. And unlike the white widow I got last time that boasted 26%, I believe DelaHaze lives up to it's claim.
Thanks!
EDIT: Deleted, don't want to derail your thread with pot talk...haha
It's ok, not many folks want to have real discussion on the philosophy. Because, mainly the people who base their identity around being Christian, do not follow the philosophy. They know their political beliefs and actions can't stand up to scrutiny of someone that ignores the divinity and the absolute forgiveness for any transgressions as long as you ask your imaginary friend to forgive you, for the actual philosophy.
Next time you run into some asshole talking about the wall, ask him if he's christian. And what Christ, and only Christ says about foreigners in your land. Not the rest of the bull**** in the bible. Just what Jesus said, because a Christian, that part should have the most weight right?
I agree completely...though I would not necessarily use the same broad brush. I've never understood Christians being against "foreigners" - tolerance towards refugees and immigrants is taught even in the old testament...which is far less "warm and fuzzy" than Christ's teachings. Some denominations within the Christian religion remember this, others don't. I live in a tiny area, full of conservative rural folks, and three churches out here sponsored Syrian refugees, and brought them to the community - and no condition that the families they brought in ever had to attend their church. To me that's Christianity done correctly. Emphasis on "to me".
It's hard to talk philosophy sometimes...especially in here...with folks who have different belief systems. It gets confrontational way too fast. Threats of hell, and mockery about "imaginary friends" and all that...Things are much simpler around a campfire, passing around a bit of the wisdom weed. But for what it's worth, we'd probably agree on most things, if not the "does he exist" bit, from the sounds of things. I'm good with that if you are.
Well, I only ever use the term imaginary friend with the people that use their faith as justification for personal things. Because that's all god is to them in that instance. They take it as mocking their whole faith, instead of as a very personal insult. Which is what it is. If you don't walk the walk, and only talk the talk, you have an imaginary friend. In my opinion.
It seems, you've started to study Roman influence on Christianity, but only took a glance at it in a much larger course.
https://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-210/lecture-1
It was more Rome adopted Christianity to jump ahead of the cult following that was growing and threatening their ability to levy troops. No troops, no war, no new riches to add to the treasury. Etc. And so forth.
It's a long course, and it's Yale, so it's rather advanced, but it's a real look at that period in history.
I am going to give you all a rare glimpse into my private belief system. Why? Because I smoked a lot of weed about 10 minutes ago. And this seems like a good idea.
I don't believe in the traditional concept of God, or Gods (plural). More like I subscribe to Carl Sagan's observation. We are the Universe contemplating itself. The Universe operates on a cycle of expansion and contraction. And life began on the quantum level, in it's chaos the first spark of life happened, and grew from there.
Those are just ideas I subscribe to, I can't even call them beliefs. Because to believe something is to give it power over you. And none of these ideas hold power over me. A little evidence, or a more plausible scenario, and I'll change my mind.
But I still think Jesus Christ is real. Not the son of God, but one of the greatest philosophers and teachers the world has ever known.
Can I prove he was born? No. Can I prove historically, he was a person who existed and lead a life as described in the Bible. No.
How can I say he is Real.
The same way Super man is real. The same way the version of George Washington we teach in school is real. Human imagination makes them real. Whether Jesus was a real boy, or the work of Roman Priests, it doesn't matter. His story, and ideas changed the world. Not because people believed he was the son of god. But because of his teachings inspire the best in each of us.
Anyone who has seriously studied history, will realize, none of it's concrete. The people of each time create their own history based on what they want passed down. Just as we create our perfect versions of ourselves on social media. Because that is what will be recorded of us in history.
In 2,000 years who is to say, people will believe Captain America was a real person. And would that be such a bad thing?
Well the gist of it is still that Rome converted mainly for practical, not spiritual, reasons. Which should make Christians stop and think a little? And Christianity spread because Rome forced it on everyone they conquered. And modified it so it would be more acceptable to the pagans.
Christianity is now a major religion and Jesus is rock star popular because of Rome's military power.
But Christians will tell you it's because the religion is so different and special. No it is not so different or special. It's a good religion, I think, if you don't know about any others.
All religions are human attempts to grasp the ungraspable. So I give Christians credit for trying, for worshiping and for praying. That's all that matters.
But the dogmatic nonsense and the intolerance are unfortunate.
I don't disagree...but it's as much of a conversation killer as calling an obese person a fat ass, when you're trying to tell them about healthy eating...hehe... I think people leap to it a little too quickly, sometimes. Not saying you, just speaking in general. It would be interesting to see what philosophical conversations would be possible if everyone simmered down on that a bit from both directions.
But now it sounds, at least to me, like I'm lecturing you, and that's not my intention. I liked your initial post.
So, what would a philosophical discussion around an atheist's positive perception of Christian philosophy look like?
And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when
he was set down, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of
heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute
you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for
my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for
so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your
consolation.
14 Woe unto you that are full now, for ye shall hunger. Woe unto
you that laugh now, for ye shall mourn and weep.
15 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you, for so
did their fathers to the false prophets.
So where do you think matter came from?
P.S. - I'm impressed that you could put this together while seriously buzzed on a Haze strain.
It seems, you've started to study Roman influence on Christianity, but only took a glance at it in a much larger course.
https://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-210/lecture-1
It was more Rome adopted Christianity to jump ahead of the cult following that was growing and threatening their ability to levy troops. No troops, no war, no new riches to add to the treasury. Etc. And so forth.
It's a long course, and it's Yale, so it's rather advanced, but it's a real look at that period in history.
It was more Rome adopted Christianity to jump ahead of the cult following that was growing and threatening their ability to levy troops. No troops, no war, no new riches to add to the treasury. Etc. And so forth.
The next bit that I like to focus on, is the one that applies to Modern Christianity today. Reading Lines 9 10, and 11, brings a current event to mind. Immigrants and Refugees being persecuted for righteousness sake. By certain evangelical groups and conservative Christians in the US. In Jesus' name.
Immigrants aren't the problem. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS who are breaking our laws are the problem. That's not being righteous.
"Would Jesus approve of illegals breaking American laws by entering America in the first Place? Would Jesus approve of the liberals bankrupting America when providing illegal aliens with trillions of dollars in benefits, some of which aren’t even available to American citizens or our beloved Veterans? Would Jesus approve of the mayhem caused by illegal alien criminal activity: murders, robberies, rapes, DWI manslaughter, etc.? And where does it say in the Bible that Jesus won’t love and bless illegal immigrants if they stay in Mexico? Would Jesus approve of illegal sanctuary cities such as San Francisco, where a beautiful young lady by the name of Kate Steinle was murdered by an illegal alien who had amassed numerous felony convictions? I don’t think so. God created borders in the Old Testament, and he did that for a reason, so that tribes and nations would know the limits of their boundaries. And it doesn’t seem proper for tens of millions of illegal aliens wanting to turn America into the same kind of third world Hell-hole from which they came." - Righterreport.com)
Rabbi Aryeh Spero put it this way:
“Nor did the Bible request that the decency we extend to strangers result in national suicide. It never encouraged a virtual open-border situation where the host country is overrun and loses its indigenous culture, suspends its laws, invites disarray, or forfeits its ability to flourish as a unique and sovereign entity.”
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