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Christ's philosophy, and what makes him real...

ThoughtEx.

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I am going to give you all a rare glimpse into my private belief system. Why? Because I smoked a lot of weed about 10 minutes ago. And this seems like a good idea.

I don't believe in the traditional concept of God, or Gods (plural). More like I subscribe to Carl Sagan's observation. We are the Universe contemplating itself. The Universe operates on a cycle of expansion and contraction. And life began on the quantum level, in it's chaos the first spark of life happened, and grew from there.

Those are just ideas I subscribe to, I can't even call them beliefs. Because to believe something is to give it power over you. And none of these ideas hold power over me. A little evidence, or a more plausible scenario, and I'll change my mind.

But I still think Jesus Christ is real. Not the son of God, but one of the greatest philosophers and teachers the world has ever known.

Can I prove he was born? No. Can I prove historically, he was a person who existed and lead a life as described in the Bible. No.

How can I say he is Real.

The same way Super man is real. The same way the version of George Washington we teach in school is real. Human imagination makes them real. Whether Jesus was a real boy, or the work of Roman Priests, it doesn't matter. His story, and ideas changed the world. Not because people believed he was the son of god. But because of his teachings inspire the best in each of us.

Anyone who has seriously studied history, will realize, none of it's concrete. The people of each time create their own history based on what they want passed down. Just as we create our perfect versions of ourselves on social media. Because that is what will be recorded of us in history.

In 2,000 years who is to say, people will believe Captain America was a real person. And would that be such a bad thing?
 
And if we take away all the god stuff, and look at the story, his actions and words. We see why Buddhist consider him a Bodhisattva.

I wish more people would focus on his teachings, and what his sacrifice truly means.

Regardless of the existence of God. In the story. Jesus endures extreme torture, and is crucified. And after all that, he asks his father to forgive those who did it to him. And forgives them himself.

After preaching compassion, turning the other cheek, and forgiveness. In the story, he actually does it.

Which in our own lives, is a lesson we can all benefit from. A lot of anger in the world, much of it coming from the hearts of Christians.

So I'd like people to talk about Jesus' philosophy here. What they like about it.

Not the legacy of the Church, or whether god is real.

This one is about exploring the message itself.
 
I am going to give you all a rare glimpse into my private belief system. Why? Because I smoked a lot of weed about 10 minutes ago. And this seems like a good idea.
Splendid! I can't wait!!

I don't believe in the traditional concept of God, or Gods (plural). More like I subscribe to Carl Sagan's observation. We are the Universe contemplating itself. The Universe operates on a cycle of expansion and contraction. And life began on the quantum level, in it's chaos the first spark of life happened, and grew from there.
Interesting beliefs... I'm just curious as to how you reconcile, in your mind, intelligent life resulting from a non-intelligent source... and to define what 'quantum chaos' is...

Those are just ideas I subscribe to, I can't even call them beliefs.
Yes, you can, because they ARE beliefs.

Because to believe something is to give it power over you. And none of these ideas hold power over me.
Irrelevant. All that makes something a belief is your acceptance of a particular claim/statement/argument as a true.

A little evidence, or a more plausible scenario, and I'll change my mind.
This is a philosophical discussion concerning the particular religion which you have posited. Evidence for it is already present; you simply find certain evidence convincing over other evidence. You will never find any proof, since open functional systems such as Philosophy and Religion don't make use of proofs.
 
Splendid! I can't wait!!


Interesting beliefs... I'm just curious as to how you reconcile, in your mind, intelligent life resulting from a non-intelligent source... and to define what 'quantum chaos' is...


Yes, you can, because they ARE beliefs.


Irrelevant. All that makes something a belief is your acceptance of a particular claim/statement/argument as a true.


This is a philosophical discussion concerning the particular religion which you have posited. Evidence for it is already present; you simply find certain evidence convincing over other evidence. You will never find any proof, since open functional systems such as Philosophy and Religion don't make use of proofs.

No one cares...
 
No one cares...

You chose to put it out there... I gave my thoughts on it, and was ready to have a deeper dialogue about it, but it seems like you aren't interested, however...

Pity...
 
I also think of Jesus as symbolic, and as a mystical savior. However, I believe he was a real person, just not all that great. Loving your enemies and turning the other cheek is a good way to get killed.

I think Jesus was just one of many prophets/mystical healers, and they have existed in all times and all places. Special in being different from most people, but not all that special because there have been shamans, etc., everywhere humans have been.

Jesus owes his current fame to the Roman Empire. If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. At this point, I feel certain that was the only reason any of us heard of him. Rome converted to Christianity because they thought Jesus would help them win wars. And I guess he did, because they won a lot of wars! Then they forced Christianity on the poor pagans that they conquered.

Of course it was a paganized version of Christianity, not resembling the original Jewish sect.

I could probably accept Jesus as my savior, without thinking much of what he supposedly taught, and without believing the tons of BS mythology. He is a symbol of the personal helper god, the Higher Self.

One thing I don't understand though is why it's such a big deal that he was crucified. How many millions of suckers have been crucified, tortured, executed in horrible ways? The fact that he suffered doesn't make him special at all. When people are amazed that he suffered, I feel like they never knew anyone who died from cancer, for example.

So, I understand why people make a big deal out of the Jesus symbol. But I don't understand why they don't know it's just a symbol.
 
You chose to put it out there... I gave my thoughts on it, and was ready to have a deeper dialogue about it, but it seems like you aren't interested, however...

Pity...

your dialogue would fall outside the scope of the thread. Choosing to focus on merit of my beliefs, is not what this thread is about. You want to go ring around the rosey on that start a thread on it.

This is about the philosophy of Jesus Christ, it's appeal, and how it can be applied to today. Regardless of what belief system anyone holds.

I'm not going to derail my own thread, just to explain obvious things to you. Not happening.
 
I also think of Jesus as symbolic, and as a mystical savior. However, I believe he was a real person, just not all that great. Loving your enemies and turning the other cheek is a good way to get killed.

I think Jesus was just one of many prophets/mystical healers, and they have existed in all times and all places. Special in being different from most people, but not all that special because there have been shamans, etc., everywhere humans have been.

Jesus owes his current fame to the Roman Empire. If anyone can prove me wrong, go ahead. At this point, I feel certain that was the only reason any of us heard of him. Rome converted to Christianity because they thought Jesus would help them win wars. And I guess he did, because they won a lot of wars! Then they forced Christianity on the poor pagans that they conquered.

Of course it was a paganized version of Christianity, not resembling the original Jewish sect.

I could probably accept Jesus as my savior, without thinking much of what he supposedly taught, and without believing the tons of BS mythology. He is a symbol of the personal helper god, the Higher Self.

One thing I don't understand though is why it's such a big deal that he was crucified. How many millions of suckers have been crucified, tortured, executed in horrible ways? The fact that he suffered doesn't make him special at all. When people are amazed that he suffered, I feel like they never knew anyone who died from cancer, for example.

So, I understand why people make a big deal out of the Jesus symbol. But I don't understand why they don't know it's just a symbol.

It seems, you've started to study Roman influence on Christianity, but only took a glance at it in a much larger course.

https://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-210/lecture-1

It was more Rome adopted Christianity to jump ahead of the cult following that was growing and threatening their ability to levy troops. No troops, no war, no new riches to add to the treasury. Etc. And so forth.

It's a long course, and it's Yale, so it's rather advanced, but it's a real look at that period in history.
 
I am going to give you all a rare glimpse into my private belief system. Why? Because I smoked a lot of weed about 10 minutes ago. And this seems like a good idea.

I don't believe in the traditional concept of God, or Gods (plural). More like I subscribe to Carl Sagan's observation. We are the Universe contemplating itself. The Universe operates on a cycle of expansion and contraction. And life began on the quantum level, in it's chaos the first spark of life happened, and grew from there.

Those are just ideas I subscribe to, I can't even call them beliefs. Because to believe something is to give it power over you. And none of these ideas hold power over me. A little evidence, or a more plausible scenario, and I'll change my mind.

But I still think Jesus Christ is real. Not the son of God, but one of the greatest philosophers and teachers the world has ever known.

Can I prove he was born? No. Can I prove historically, he was a person who existed and lead a life as described in the Bible. No.

How can I say he is Real.

The same way Super man is real. The same way the version of George Washington we teach in school is real. Human imagination makes them real. Whether Jesus was a real boy, or the work of Roman Priests, it doesn't matter. His story, and ideas changed the world. Not because people believed he was the son of god. But because of his teachings inspire the best in each of us.

Anyone who has seriously studied history, will realize, none of it's concrete. The people of each time create their own history based on what they want passed down. Just as we create our perfect versions of ourselves on social media. Because that is what will be recorded of us in history.

In 2,000 years who is to say, people will believe Captain America was a real person. And would that be such a bad thing?

hehe...two things:

1) As a Christian, I of course believe in a bit of a different direction than you, but I truly appreciate your approach. There is wisdom to be gained from every religion in the world, even if you don't necessarily believe in the deity, and I sincerely applaud your ability to say "I don't believe in their god, but I see the value of their philosophy". It demonstrates an open mind. Props.

2) What strain of herb are you enjoying? Seems epic, would like to get some up here....hehe... ;)
 
hehe...two things:

1) As a Christian, I of course believe in a bit of a different direction than you, but I truly appreciate your approach. There is wisdom to be gained from every religion in the world, even if you don't necessarily believe in the deity, and I sincerely applaud your ability to say "I don't believe in their god, but I see the value of their philosophy". It demonstrates an open mind. Props.

2) What strain of herb are you enjoying? Seems epic, would like to get some up here....hehe... ;)

DelaHaze, I got it from BCCannabisStores.com it boasts a colossal 23% thc. And unlike the white widow I got last time that boasted 26%, I believe DelaHaze lives up to it's claim.
 
DelaHaze, I got it from BCCannabisStores.com it boasts a colossal 23% thc. And unlike the white widow I got last time that boasted 26%, I believe DelaHaze lives up to it's claim.

Thanks!

EDIT: Deleted, don't want to derail your thread with pot talk... ;) haha
 
Thanks!

EDIT: Deleted, don't want to derail your thread with pot talk... ;) haha

It's ok, not many folks want to have real discussion on the philosophy. Because, mainly the people who base their identity around being Christian, do not follow the philosophy. They know their political beliefs and actions can't stand up to scrutiny of someone that ignores the divinity and the absolute forgiveness for any transgressions as long as you ask your imaginary friend to forgive you, for the actual philosophy.

Next time you run into some asshole talking about the wall, ask him if he's christian. And what Christ, and only Christ says about foreigners in your land. Not the rest of the bull**** in the bible. Just what Jesus said, because a Christian, that part should have the most weight right?
 
This is great. I grew up Methodist but I don't believe in god anymore. I still view Jesus as an important moral figure and try to live by his teachings with an obvious exception. I'm glad there are others that view it similarly.
 
It's ok, not many folks want to have real discussion on the philosophy. Because, mainly the people who base their identity around being Christian, do not follow the philosophy. They know their political beliefs and actions can't stand up to scrutiny of someone that ignores the divinity and the absolute forgiveness for any transgressions as long as you ask your imaginary friend to forgive you, for the actual philosophy.

Next time you run into some asshole talking about the wall, ask him if he's christian. And what Christ, and only Christ says about foreigners in your land. Not the rest of the bull**** in the bible. Just what Jesus said, because a Christian, that part should have the most weight right?

I agree completely...though I would not necessarily use the same broad brush. I've never understood Christians being against "foreigners" - tolerance towards refugees and immigrants is taught even in the old testament...which is far less "warm and fuzzy" than Christ's teachings. Some denominations within the Christian religion remember this, others don't. I live in a tiny area, full of conservative rural folks, and three churches out here sponsored Syrian refugees, and brought them to the community - and no condition that the families they brought in ever had to attend their church. To me that's Christianity done correctly. Emphasis on "to me". :)

It's hard to talk philosophy sometimes...especially in here...with folks who have different belief systems. It gets confrontational way too fast. Threats of hell, and mockery about "imaginary friends" and all that... ;) Things are much simpler around a campfire, passing around a bit of the wisdom weed. But for what it's worth, we'd probably agree on most things, if not the "does he exist" bit, from the sounds of things. I'm good with that if you are. :)
 
I agree completely...though I would not necessarily use the same broad brush. I've never understood Christians being against "foreigners" - tolerance towards refugees and immigrants is taught even in the old testament...which is far less "warm and fuzzy" than Christ's teachings. Some denominations within the Christian religion remember this, others don't. I live in a tiny area, full of conservative rural folks, and three churches out here sponsored Syrian refugees, and brought them to the community - and no condition that the families they brought in ever had to attend their church. To me that's Christianity done correctly. Emphasis on "to me". :)

It's hard to talk philosophy sometimes...especially in here...with folks who have different belief systems. It gets confrontational way too fast. Threats of hell, and mockery about "imaginary friends" and all that... ;) Things are much simpler around a campfire, passing around a bit of the wisdom weed. But for what it's worth, we'd probably agree on most things, if not the "does he exist" bit, from the sounds of things. I'm good with that if you are. :)

Well, I only ever use the term imaginary friend with the people that use their faith as justification for personal things. Because that's all god is to them in that instance. They take it as mocking their whole faith, instead of as a very personal insult. Which is what it is. If you don't walk the walk, and only talk the talk, you have an imaginary friend. In my opinion.
 
Well, I only ever use the term imaginary friend with the people that use their faith as justification for personal things. Because that's all god is to them in that instance. They take it as mocking their whole faith, instead of as a very personal insult. Which is what it is. If you don't walk the walk, and only talk the talk, you have an imaginary friend. In my opinion.

I don't disagree...but it's as much of a conversation killer as calling an obese person a fat ass, when you're trying to tell them about healthy eating...hehe... I think people leap to it a little too quickly, sometimes. Not saying you, just speaking in general. It would be interesting to see what philosophical conversations would be possible if everyone simmered down on that a bit from both directions.

But now it sounds, at least to me, like I'm lecturing you, and that's not my intention. I liked your initial post.

So, what would a philosophical discussion around an atheist's positive perception of Christian philosophy look like?
 
It seems, you've started to study Roman influence on Christianity, but only took a glance at it in a much larger course.

https://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-210/lecture-1

It was more Rome adopted Christianity to jump ahead of the cult following that was growing and threatening their ability to levy troops. No troops, no war, no new riches to add to the treasury. Etc. And so forth.

It's a long course, and it's Yale, so it's rather advanced, but it's a real look at that period in history.

Well the gist of it is still that Rome converted mainly for practical, not spiritual, reasons. Which should make Christians stop and think a little? And Christianity spread because Rome forced it on everyone they conquered. And modified it so it would be more acceptable to the pagans.

Christianity is now a major religion and Jesus is rock star popular because of Rome's military power.

But Christians will tell you it's because the religion is so different and special. No it is not so different or special. It's a good religion, I think, if you don't know about any others.

All religions are human attempts to grasp the ungraspable. So I give Christians credit for trying, for worshiping and for praying. That's all that matters.

But the dogmatic nonsense and the intolerance are unfortunate.
 
But maybe what you're saying is the cult was spreading like wildfire because it was so special. I see your point, but I think I had read there were lots of those mystery cults around then. It was a miserable time and mystery cults promised an escape.
 
I am going to give you all a rare glimpse into my private belief system. Why? Because I smoked a lot of weed about 10 minutes ago. And this seems like a good idea.

I don't believe in the traditional concept of God, or Gods (plural). More like I subscribe to Carl Sagan's observation. We are the Universe contemplating itself. The Universe operates on a cycle of expansion and contraction. And life began on the quantum level, in it's chaos the first spark of life happened, and grew from there.

Those are just ideas I subscribe to, I can't even call them beliefs. Because to believe something is to give it power over you. And none of these ideas hold power over me. A little evidence, or a more plausible scenario, and I'll change my mind.

But I still think Jesus Christ is real. Not the son of God, but one of the greatest philosophers and teachers the world has ever known.

Can I prove he was born? No. Can I prove historically, he was a person who existed and lead a life as described in the Bible. No.

How can I say he is Real.

The same way Super man is real. The same way the version of George Washington we teach in school is real. Human imagination makes them real. Whether Jesus was a real boy, or the work of Roman Priests, it doesn't matter. His story, and ideas changed the world. Not because people believed he was the son of god. But because of his teachings inspire the best in each of us.

Anyone who has seriously studied history, will realize, none of it's concrete. The people of each time create their own history based on what they want passed down. Just as we create our perfect versions of ourselves on social media. Because that is what will be recorded of us in history.

In 2,000 years who is to say, people will believe Captain America was a real person. And would that be such a bad thing?

So where do you think matter came from?

P.S. - I'm impressed that you could put this together while seriously buzzed on a Haze strain.
 
Well the gist of it is still that Rome converted mainly for practical, not spiritual, reasons. Which should make Christians stop and think a little? And Christianity spread because Rome forced it on everyone they conquered. And modified it so it would be more acceptable to the pagans.

Christianity is now a major religion and Jesus is rock star popular because of Rome's military power.

But Christians will tell you it's because the religion is so different and special. No it is not so different or special. It's a good religion, I think, if you don't know about any others.

All religions are human attempts to grasp the ungraspable. So I give Christians credit for trying, for worshiping and for praying. That's all that matters.

But the dogmatic nonsense and the intolerance are unfortunate.

And maybe modified it in ways that would let it to being useful in terms of keeping them in power?
 
I don't disagree...but it's as much of a conversation killer as calling an obese person a fat ass, when you're trying to tell them about healthy eating...hehe... I think people leap to it a little too quickly, sometimes. Not saying you, just speaking in general. It would be interesting to see what philosophical conversations would be possible if everyone simmered down on that a bit from both directions.

But now it sounds, at least to me, like I'm lecturing you, and that's not my intention. I liked your initial post.

So, what would a philosophical discussion around an atheist's positive perception of Christian philosophy look like?

Well, it all starts with the Sermon on the Mount.

And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when
he was set down, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of
heaven.

4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake:
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute
you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for
my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for
so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your
consolation.
14 Woe unto you that are full now, for ye shall hunger. Woe unto
you that laugh now, for ye shall mourn and weep.
15 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you, for so
did their fathers to the false prophets.

http://pattonhq.com/links/uccministry/jeffbible.pdf

The Sermon on the mount, is Jesus speaking directly about his own value system. Unlike his parables that follow, he give clear concise statements. All we have to do is look at it in objective terms. Meaning remove ourselves and our personal bias from the equation. I don't consider myself wealthy, because there are guys that own twice as many boats as me. But compared to the rest of the 7 billion in the world, I'm in the tip top of the top. Anyone that's ever owned a washing machine, by worldwide standards is wealthy.

Keeping that in mind. It's wise to Focus on the bit about being poor in Spirit. Someone who is humble, doesn't seek accolades, or affection. Non aggressive, and Non Demanding. Someone who is "poor" in spirit, may have riches, but finds no value in them other than what good they can do with it for the benefit of others.

The next bit that I like to focus on, is the one that applies to Modern Christianity today. Reading Lines 9 10, and 11, brings a current event to mind. Immigrants and Refugees being persecuted for righteousness sake. By certain evangelical groups and conservative Christians in the US. In Jesus' name.

Those bold lines are prophetic and speaking directly to his followers in regards to how they should approach other people. Because the type of American that can turn away those people, is not poor in spirit.
 
So where do you think matter came from?

P.S. - I'm impressed that you could put this together while seriously buzzed on a Haze strain.

I've often pondered the origin of matter, while at the same time the necessity for an origin. To grasp the concept of infinity, to have a real understanding of it. You have to think about time.

It doesn't end in any direction. And there are more directions than back and forward. It is Matter that keeps us locked in these three dimensions and in the direction in time we are travelling. So the concept of time as we know it, has only existed as long as there has been matter.

The concept of time doesn't exist on the quantum level, everything is all at once like a giant tapestry. Infinity. All possibilities, all permutations, all. I like to visualize it like the quantum level is the pattern that projects The Multiverse into being.

It seems chaotic to us, much like a working engine would seem chaotic to a squirrel caught in it.

Short answer, it's always existed on this level of reality. Everything has always existed. Right now, your great great great great great great grandchildren exist. As well as the rodent that survived the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs, we all evolved from.

It all exists at once.

On quantum scale, this projection could be a momentary roll of the dice and everything came into being at the moment I hit save changes. As time travels in all directions, as soon as the Universe came into at a particular moment, all moments came into being at once.

There is no beginning. There is no end. There just is...

And we could blink out, in a moment. Having still lived our full lives. And all time being accounted for, for billions of years. Just a flash. Like a light switch on and off.

And because of life, the light switch is on. It's been demonstrated that perceiving the quantum level changes it. Life exists on some form on the quantum level, and is able to alter the pattern.

Maybe even break the laws of physics.
 
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It seems, you've started to study Roman influence on Christianity, but only took a glance at it in a much larger course.

https://oyc.yale.edu/history/hist-210/lecture-1

It was more Rome adopted Christianity to jump ahead of the cult following that was growing and threatening their ability to levy troops. No troops, no war, no new riches to add to the treasury. Etc. And so forth.

It's a long course, and it's Yale, so it's rather advanced, but it's a real look at that period in history.

If Ceasar had not crossed the Rubicon, the Empire would have fallen far sooner. At least, that was my distinct impression after working my way through Gibbon and a bunch of other works. (He always gets blamed for destroying the republic, but the republic was effectively dead at least 100 years beforehand. The Patrician-Plebian divides were growing apace. I don't see much reason to think it could have lasted as a republic that much longer). Without imperial control, Rome would have had a lot tougher time holding onto territory and keeping the various Goths, Ostrogoths, Sycthians, etc., at bay. I suspect it'd have fallen far sooner, perhaps even before establishing a solid eastern section.

And if the Empire had fallen far sooner (I'd guesstimate maybe 100 AD), there's a good chance that Christianity would not have spread anywhere near as widely, and thus, any "Jesus" - historical or imagined - would not have nearly as much impact.

It's a fair point.





It was more Rome adopted Christianity to jump ahead of the cult following that was growing and threatening their ability to levy troops. No troops, no war, no new riches to add to the treasury. Etc. And so forth.

Well, not just that. Pagan-Christian strife between citizens was its own problem, as well. But yes, it was a political move. (ie, so too was the Council of Nicea and the decision to side with Athanasius).
 
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The next bit that I like to focus on, is the one that applies to Modern Christianity today. Reading Lines 9 10, and 11, brings a current event to mind. Immigrants and Refugees being persecuted for righteousness sake. By certain evangelical groups and conservative Christians in the US. In Jesus' name.

Immigrants aren't the problem. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS who are breaking our laws are the problem. That's not being righteous.

"Would Jesus approve of illegals breaking American laws by entering America in the first Place? Would Jesus approve of the liberals bankrupting America when providing illegal aliens with trillions of dollars in benefits, some of which aren’t even available to American citizens or our beloved Veterans? Would Jesus approve of the mayhem caused by illegal alien criminal activity: murders, robberies, rapes, DWI manslaughter, etc.? And where does it say in the Bible that Jesus won’t love and bless illegal immigrants if they stay in Mexico? Would Jesus approve of illegal sanctuary cities such as San Francisco, where a beautiful young lady by the name of Kate Steinle was murdered by an illegal alien who had amassed numerous felony convictions? I don’t think so. God created borders in the Old Testament, and he did that for a reason, so that tribes and nations would know the limits of their boundaries. And it doesn’t seem proper for tens of millions of illegal aliens wanting to turn America into the same kind of third world Hell-hole from which they came." - Righterreport.com)

Rabbi Aryeh Spero put it this way:

“Nor did the Bible request that the decency we extend to strangers result in national suicide. It never encouraged a virtual open-border situation where the host country is overrun and loses its indigenous culture, suspends its laws, invites disarray, or forfeits its ability to flourish as a unique and sovereign entity.”
 
Immigrants aren't the problem. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS who are breaking our laws are the problem. That's not being righteous.

"Would Jesus approve of illegals breaking American laws by entering America in the first Place? Would Jesus approve of the liberals bankrupting America when providing illegal aliens with trillions of dollars in benefits, some of which aren’t even available to American citizens or our beloved Veterans? Would Jesus approve of the mayhem caused by illegal alien criminal activity: murders, robberies, rapes, DWI manslaughter, etc.? And where does it say in the Bible that Jesus won’t love and bless illegal immigrants if they stay in Mexico? Would Jesus approve of illegal sanctuary cities such as San Francisco, where a beautiful young lady by the name of Kate Steinle was murdered by an illegal alien who had amassed numerous felony convictions? I don’t think so. God created borders in the Old Testament, and he did that for a reason, so that tribes and nations would know the limits of their boundaries. And it doesn’t seem proper for tens of millions of illegal aliens wanting to turn America into the same kind of third world Hell-hole from which they came." - Righterreport.com)

Rabbi Aryeh Spero put it this way:

“Nor did the Bible request that the decency we extend to strangers result in national suicide. It never encouraged a virtual open-border situation where the host country is overrun and loses its indigenous culture, suspends its laws, invites disarray, or forfeits its ability to flourish as a unique and sovereign entity.”

This is not a discussion of the Bible, never will be...

This is the philosophy and underlying morality of Jesus' philosophy.

All of your questions about what Jesus would support concerning immigrants, rests on false assumptions and quite frankly racism. You contribution to this thread so far is a joke.

Let me help you, either demonstrate that Jesus' personal philosophy does those things by breaking down his sermon and parables, or go start another thread more in line with what your imaginary friend stands for...
 
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