Christian nationalists - wanting to put God into US government

Somerville · Jan 12, 2023

This is an article from the BBC, so of course they don't really understand the USofA

Christian nationalists - wanting to put God into US government
New battle lines are being drawn in the US by a right-wing Christian movement set on what it sees as its divine mission - to spread its beliefs and messages using political power. So what is Christian nationalism and why is it flourishing now?

Following are selected passages from the article

God and country is one of the oldest and most influential currents in US politics. It ebbs and flows throughout American history.
It's at high tide now because conservative Christians feel they're on the losing end of demographic and cultural changes. That's been amplified by a backlash against what they saw as government overreach during the Covid pandemic.

Until recently the reach and power of this muscular Christianity was invisible to most Americans.
But it broke cover during the storming of the Capitol building last year.
The sight of rioters carrying crosses and Christian flags, and even praying together, exposed just how much religious and political identities had begun to merge on the right - bonded by a belief that the 2020 election had been stolen from Donald Trump.

There were also pastors at the Capitol that day, and some continue to preach that message.

"I think that threat - of white Christians no longer knowing they're in control, demographically, culturally, politically - is why we're seeing it kind of come to the fore in the current context," says Jones.
Many reject the Christian nationalist label as a leftist smear.
But a few right-wing politicians have embraced its holy rhetoric, such as Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert, two hardline Republicans and Trump allies.
"We need to be the party of nationalism, we should be Christian Nationalists," says Greene.

The rational might have already noticed similarities between this growing group in America with religious extremists in other countries, the extremists certainly have.

Online, extremists have taken it even further.
"We are the Christian Taliban," crowed white nationalist Vincent James Foxx in his webcast after the Supreme Court decision on Roe v Wade.
"And we will not stop until The Handmaid's Tale is a reality."

It all seems to be a result of fear -- fear of "replacement". If white Christians become a minority, are they afraid because of their own actions in the past against other minority groups? That they will be treated as they have done in the past?

Is America now or has it ever been a "Christian nation"?

Gordy327 · Jan 13, 2023

Somerville said:
Is America now or has it ever been a "Christian nation"?

In short, no!

bomberfox · Jan 13, 2023

Somerville said:
This is an article from the BBC, so of course they don't really understand the USofA

Following are selected passages from the article

The rational might have already noticed similarities between this growing group in America with religious extremists in other countries, the extremists certainly have.

It all seems to be a result of fear -- fear of "replacement". If white Christians become a minority, are they afraid because of their own actions in the past against other minority groups? That they will be treated as they have done in the past?

Is America now or has it ever been a "Christian nation"?

They fear not being in control of everyone, to not be wearing the boot they wish to stomp on our necks.

The sooner they become a miniscule minority, the easier all of us can breathe.

Jason Warfield · Jan 13, 2023

Somerville said:
This is an article from the BBC, so of course they don't really understand the USofA

Following are selected passages from the article

The rational might have already noticed similarities between this growing group in America with religious extremists in other countries, the extremists certainly have.

It all seems to be a result of fear -- fear of "replacement". If white Christians become a minority, are they afraid because of their own actions in the past against other minority groups? That they will be treated as they have done in the past?

Is America now or has it ever been a "Christian nation"?

In terms of being the biggest religion practiced in the nation. yes.

In terms of being part of government, no. While our Constitution prevents a national religion or religious tests to hold office, it will protect the right to practice for the individual citizen.

The problem with the right is that they believe because most Americans follow Christianity, so should the government. Despite the fact that the Founders and Framers created a Constitution in fear of a Christian take over of government and the problems it would cause a free people as evidenced in Europe.

Glitch · Jan 13, 2023

Somerville said:
This is an article from the BBC, so of course they don't really understand the USofA

Following are selected passages from the article

The rational might have already noticed similarities between this growing group in America with religious extremists in other countries, the extremists certainly have.

It all seems to be a result of fear -- fear of "replacement". If white Christians become a minority, are they afraid because of their own actions in the past against other minority groups? That they will be treated as they have done in the past?

Is America now or has it ever been a "Christian nation"?

The US is not now, nor has it ever been, a "Christian nation." The US was established as a secular nation that accepts everyone regardless of their religious belief, or lack thereof. Congress was specifically prohibited from interfering with the free exercise of religious belief. The States, however, did establish official State religions since the First Amendment only applied to Congress. At least until the Fourteen Amendment was ratified in 1867 and the Supreme Court finally got around to applying the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the States in Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940).

So it is not accurate to say that the US has ever been a Christian nation, but it is accurate to say that several States were Christian States at least until 1940.

CaughtInThe · Jan 13, 2023

They want to put the Christian God in government. Just like a lot of Muslims have put the Islamic God in government.

Somerville · Jan 15, 2023

Glitch said:
The US is not now, nor has it ever been, a "Christian nation." The US was established as a secular nation that accepts everyone regardless of their religious belief, or lack thereof. Congress was specifically prohibited from interfering with the free exercise of religious belief. The States, however, did establish official State religions since the First Amendment only applied to Congress. At least until the Fourteen Amendment was ratified in 1867 and the Supreme Court finally got around to applying the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the States in Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U.S. 296 (1940).

So it is not accurate to say that the US has ever been a Christian nation, but it is accurate to say that several States were Christian States at least until 1940.

Thank you for the words. We don't often agree on political/social matters but for once it is a pleasure to see that we can agree on some issues.

Superfly · Jan 15, 2023

They should not be forcing their faith into government, but it’s sure not stopping them from trying. Ask any of them. I’d venture to guess that 70%+ of right-wing politicians would be ok with a heavier hand of religion in government.

As long as it’s their religion, of course.

Gordy327 · Jan 15, 2023

CaughtInThe said:
They want to put the Christian God in government. Just like a lot of Muslims have put the Islamic God in government.

And nothing good can come from that. The Founding Fathers knew that too and established the separation of church and state.

Somerville · Jan 15, 2023

Not all Republicans are in favor of favoring Christianity in their workplace

South Dakota Legislature tackles Christian marks in Capitol
South Dakota lawmakers can adorn their office with a crucifix, but they can't pound the nail into the state Capitol's wall.
South Dakota lawmakers can adorn their office with a crucifix, but they can’t pound the nail into the state Capitol’s wall, a legislative oversight board clarified on Tuesday as part of a policy regulating how religious symbols can mark the state’s seat of government.

The Legislature’s Executive Board took up the issue after two Republican lawmakers stained five chairs in a Capitol meeting room with oil as they marked chairs with crosses ahead of a meeting last month to elect caucus leaders. It took the Capitol’s groundskeepers about three hours to clean, but five chairs were left slightly discolored.

Republican state Rep. Sue Peterson told The Dakota Scout that she marked chairs with oil crosses as an act of prayer before last month’s Republican caucus meeting. She said many lawmakers often pray as they craft state laws.

Peterson did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the new policy.

Schoenbeck proposed a policy that instructs lawmakers they “may not mark on or damage in any fashion the real or personal property of the Citizens’ Capitol.”

NOT one of the marked chairs but it provides an image of the marks that had to be cleaned off the chairs, at a cost of $79.80

Lawmakers have long been comfortable with an atmosphere imbued with Christianity. They bow their heads in prayer before starting each session, dozens show up to the Capitol with their foreheads marked by crosses on Ash Wednesday and the Bible is sometimes invoked during bill debates.

But (Republican state Sen. Lee) Schoenbeck also said it was important to clarify how First Amendment rights are respected on government property. He said if one religious group is given space for expression, any other group needs to be granted access as well.

Lycanthrope · Jan 15, 2023

The American Protestant obsession with using the power of secular government to enforce their religious beliefs on nonbelievers is ugly and dangerous.

Gordy327 · Jan 15, 2023

Lycanthrope said:
The American Protestant obsession with using the power of secular government to enforce their religious beliefs on nonbelievers is ugly and dangerous.

For any explanation as to why religion in government is dangerous, one need only look to the Middle East and its regimes for the answer. Why anyone would want something like that here boggles the mind.

reinaert · Jan 15, 2023

I'm starting to think the best thing would be a decade of bumbling neo-Confederate theocratic authoritarianism; a kind of vaccination, if you will.

Fletch · Jan 15, 2023

Somerville said:
This is an article from the BBC, so of course they don't really understand the USofA

Following are selected passages from the article

The rational might have already noticed similarities between this growing group in America with religious extremists in other countries, the extremists certainly have.

It all seems to be a result of fear -- fear of "replacement". If white Christians become a minority, are they afraid because of their own actions in the past against other minority groups? That they will be treated as they have done in the past?

Is America now or has it ever been a "Christian nation"?

So you are saying that there are Christians in the US that oppose oppressive government and support moral values? No shit dude. Thats been true for a couple hundred years now.

Lycanthrope · Jan 15, 2023

reinaert said:
I'm starting to think the best thing would be a decade of bumbling neo-Confederate theocratic authoritarianism; a kind of vaccination, if you will.

If we're going to do that then give them a small region to enact their theocratic authoritarianism to minimize the damage.

Maybe lease them South Carolina for 10 years?

reinaert · Jan 15, 2023

Lycanthrope said:
If we're going to do that then give them a small region to enact their theocratic authoritarianism to minimize the damage.

Maybe lease them South Carolina for 10 years?

They already are halfway there throughout the Old Confederacy, and it's still spreading. Plus, SC is the bruised heart of dominionism and its twin, carnival sinning. Used to be the carnival came to town a week before the revivalists, and sometimes used the same tents and workers. This is SC in a nutshell, and no one else is getting 'vaccinated' by SC being on the verge of re-Confederacizing itself.

I'm afraid we're going to have see them win and do their authoritarian worst nationwide before we have a chance to put political religiosity and its powerlust behind us.

Somerville · Jan 16, 2023

Fletch said:
So you are saying that there are Christians in the US that oppose oppressive government and support moral values? No shit dude. Thats been true for a couple hundred years now.

Yes, there are American Christians who oppose oppressive government and support widely accepted moral values -- and then there are others. To which group do you pledge allegiance?

"We are the Christian Taliban," crowed white nationalist Vincent James Foxx in his webcast after the Supreme Court decision on Roe v Wade.
"And we will not stop until The Handmaid's Tale is a reality."

weaver2 · Jan 16, 2023

Somerville said:
This is an article from the BBC, so of course they don't really understand the USofA. "....... conservative Christians feel they're on the losing end of demographic and cultural changes. ........"

Conservatives spent 50 years listening to Phyllis Schlafly and others like her tell them that American public education was destroying their children, that teachers were turning their children against their parents, were teaching them them Marxism and telling them their culture was wrong. And conservatives believed her, told their kids that education was dumb and teachers were vile commies. So their kids, now grown to adulthood, are uneducated, ignorant and unprepared for dealing with modern culture. Yes, they are on the losing end of cultural changes, by their own choosing.

What if...? · Jan 16, 2023

bomberfox said:
They fear not being in control of everyone, to not be wearing the boot they wish to stomp on our necks.

The sooner they become a miniscule minority, the easier all of us can breathe.

It’s really worse. This life cannot be too good or it’s hard to sell privation and subservience in this life in exchange for a pleasurable afterlife.

Having a bunch of people living their lives as they see fit and loving it makes it hard to keep the collection plates full.

So they do the dirty. Trying to impose their rules on everybody. Trying to cheat their way into heaven by having the threat of force instead of love of their god make them obey jahweh’s edicts.

bomberfox · Jan 16, 2023

What if...? said:
It’s really worse. This life cannot be too good or it’s hard to sell privation and subservience in this life in exchange for a pleasurable afterlife.

Having a bunch of people living their lives as they see fit and loving it makes it hard to keep the collection plates full.

So they do the dirty. Trying to impose their rules on everybody. Trying to cheat their way into heaven by having the threat of force instead of love of their god make them obey jahweh’s edicts.

Yeah their morality doesnt center on human well being. In fact that is only secondary.

Lycanthrope · Jan 16, 2023

What if...? said:
Trying to impose their rules on everybody. Trying to cheat their way into heaven by having the threat of force instead of love of their god make them obey jahweh’s edicts.

Evangelicals should take a hard look at this to understand why so many view them with contempt at best, alarm at worst. You don't get to force God on anyone, anymore than Muslims get to force Allah. You convince others to accept the gift through your character and deeds.

Imposing on the freedom and free will of others is not the way to convince others of anything but the need to resist.

What if...? · Jan 16, 2023

bomberfox said:
Yeah their morality doesnt center on human well being. In fact that is only secondary.

Well, it centers on the well being of some humans.

Just not necessarily the flocks.

Not all religious people suck. All faiths have wonderful people in them.

But religion organized is religion abused.

Historically.

What if...? · Jan 16, 2023

Lycanthrope said:
Evangelicals should take a hard look at this to understand why so many view them with contempt at best, alarm at worst. You don't get to force God on anyone, anymore than Muslims get to force Allah. You convince others to accept the gift through your character and deeds.

Imposing on the freedom and free will of others is not the way to convince others of anything but the need to resist.

All part of a trend I’m seeing. Kinda paranoid, but i keep seeing things that fit a pattern.

What I see appears to be the approach of a “choice point”. A time when two paths present themselves and one must be chosen.

And it’s a fundamental one.

Shorthand version: The entire world is in crisis of varying degrees and immanence. And at the end of the day, these are the choices:

We continue to play the “Who can be the richest, most powerful person in the world” game we’ve been playing to the majorities detriment since shortly after we stopped wandering around in small groups.

Or we adopt a more cooperative model that acknowledges the challenges we face and comes up with solutions that work for the most people. No reason to do away with capitalism. Just tax the crap out of problematic behaviors. Follow the Golden Rule better on a global scale.

Now, those who are playing the first game don’t want to stop. It’s an addictive behavior and they’ve built their entire personalities around it. And the only way the game can continue going forward long term is some form of totalitarianism.

And I think that may be behind the resurgence of authoritarianism and religious fundamentalism. Seeding the ground for the clampdown.

It’s interesting to look at the world through this lens right now.

Keeps making me go, Hmmm?

Lycanthrope · Jan 16, 2023

What if...? said:
All part of a trend I’m seeing. Kinda paranoid, but i keep seeing things that fit a pattern.

What I see appears to be the approach of a “choice point”. A time when two paths present themselves and one must be chosen.

And it’s a fundamental one.

Shorthand version: The entire world is in crisis of varying degrees and immanence. And at the end of the day, these are the choices:

We continue to play the “Who can be the richest, most powerful person in the world” game we’ve been playing to the majorities detriment since shortly after we stopped wandering around in small groups.

Or we adopt a more cooperative model that acknowledges the challenges we face and comes up with solutions that work for the most people. No reason to do away with capitalism. Just tax the crap out of problematic behaviors. Follow the Golden Rule better on a global scale.

Now, those who are playing the first game don’t want to stop. It’s an addictive behavior and they’ve built their entire personalities around it. And the only way the game can continue going forward long term is some form of totalitarianism.

And I think that may be behind the resurgence of authoritarianism and religious fundamentalism. Seeding the ground for the clampdown.

It’s interesting to look at the world through this lens right now.

Keeps making me go, Hmmm?

The haves (and that means those who have the financial and/or social power) will not cooperate with the have nots until it's literally a life or death choice, for THEM. Until then there's no motivation to share, and every reason to entrench.

Glitch · Jan 16, 2023

Superfly said:
They should not be forcing their faith into government, but it’s sure not stopping them from trying. Ask any of them. I’d venture to guess that 70%+ of right-wing politicians would be ok with a heavier hand of religion in government.

As long as it’s their religion, of course.

View attachment 67432342

You have it backwards actually. It is government that should not be forcing faith onto others. People of faith should definitely be part of government, and they always have been. By the way, the Jesuit Catholic priest from Massachusetts served in Congress as a Democrat until 1981, not a Republican. So much for your "right-wing" utter nonsense. As many as 14% of the first Congress were part of the clergy, today that number is just 1%.

Christian nationalists - wanting to put God into US government

Somerville