Christian "Domestic Discipline"...???

OMG!!! YARF! :2sick1:

Shhhh: I've uncovered yet another dirty fundamentalist little secret.

In my research for the "Spanking: yes or no" thread, I visited a lot of fundamentalist and evangelical Christian sites, and found that while most advocated corporal punishment for children, there were also some veiled references to something called "DD", which, upon further investigation, revealed itself to be an acronym for wife beating, ie "Domestic Discipline".

Now, surely this is only a marginal, fringey element of fundamentalist extremists that actually participate in this practice, but still.... GROSS!
Why don't they just come out of the closet, admit they're sadomasochistic perverts, and be done with it?

What is Christian Domestic Discipline?

A Domestic Discipline marriage is one in which one partner in a
relationship has authority over the other, and with that authority the
means to enforce it, occasionally by spanking. It is sometimes called
"Loving Domestic Discipline" or a "Taken in Hand" relationship.

In Christian Domestic Discipline, the marriage is set up according to the
guidelines set forth in the Holy Bible, meaning the husband has
authority over his wife and thus the means to back up that authority. In
a true Christian Domestic Discipline marriage spanking is rare and
tempered with the knowledge that the husband must answer to God for
his actions and decisions in his position of authority.

We at Christian Domestic Discipline Publications believe there is nothing
more romantic than a relationship set up according to God's plan.

link

More 'Christian Domestic Discipline' links: click

Now, I realize this is not status quo, even for devout Christians; in fact, many fundamentalist sites deplore the practice and speak out against it as actually being contrary to God's wishes: link

Click here to learn more about the Christian Domestic Discipline lifestyle: link

Gosh, you know... my propensity for hypocrisy perpetually surprises me.
As much as try to follow (and promote) a tolerant, "you-do-your-thing, I'll-do-mine" philosophy, I'm utterly repulsed by this.
Frankly, it gives me the heebie-jeebies. Especially the fact that even mainstream Christian sites are aware of this movement (and on familiar enough terms with it to refer to it, off-handedly, as 'DD').
And I had no idea.

Wow.
And see, I have no problem with S&M/B&D freaks, as long as everything is consensual.
More hypocrisy.

I guess my fear, with this Domestic Discipline thing, is that maybe everything isn't consensual. Maybe these women are somehow brainwashed into submitting to this by religion, or something.

Anyway. Your thoughts.

Wiki article on DD: click

You know I'm just going to have to infiltrate one of these "DD" forums. :twisted:

I am utterly intrigued by the "hush-hush", secret-society, underground aspect of all of this.
These people know they're being naughty.

I'll infiltrate one of their groups, and duly report back with my findings.
If you never hear from me again, send a St. Bernard (or perhaps the FBI) in after me.
Maybe you'll end up finding Coffeesaint (and Spook, and Vauge, and Felicity) as well.

(People are disappearing like crazy around here, has anyone noticed? :ninja

Sounds more like domestic perversion to me. Spank me, baby, oh make it hurt and then use the "big stick".....:lol:

UtahBill said:

Sounds more like domestic perversion to me. Spank me, baby, oh make it hurt and then use the "big stick".....:lol:

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Bwa-ha-ha! :mrgreen:
Maybe you should infiltrate their Yahoo group with me.

Actually, one of the sites I linked to actually mentioned that the husband should withhold sex from the wife after a spanking, so that she didn't get confused and start associating punishment with "reward".

:2rofll:

1069 said:

Wiki article on DD: click

You know I'm just going to have to infiltrate one of these "DD" forums. :twisted:

I am utterly intrigued by the "hush-hush", secret-society, underground aspect of all of this.
These people know they're being naughty.

I'll infiltrate one of their groups, and duly report back with my findings.
If you never hear from me again, send a St. Bernard (or perhaps the FBI) in after me.
Maybe you'll end up finding Coffeesaint (and Spook, and Vauge, and Felicity) as well.

(People are disappearing like crazy around here, has anyone noticed? :ninja

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Don't forget to leave a trail of breadcrumbs so you can find your way back...or dental records so we can identify the body. :2razz::mrgreen:

1069 said:

Bwa-ha-ha! :mrgreen:
Maybe you should infiltrate their Yahoo group with me.

Actually, one of the sites I linked to actually mentioned that the husband should withhold sex from the wife after a spanking, so that she didn't get confused and start associating punishment with "reward".

:2rofll:

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The blatent egotism of that statement cannot be measured by modern technology. I'd bet the wives are thankful to not need to endure their husband's '4 seconds of heaven'.

This is utterly repulsive. I do not understand why any adult woman would submit to being treated like a child by her husband.

1069 said:

Bwa-ha-ha! :mrgreen:
Maybe you should infiltrate their Yahoo group with me.

Actually, one of the sites I linked to actually mentioned that the husband should withhold sex from the wife after a spanking, so that she didn't get confused and start associating punishment with "reward".

:2rofll:

Click to expand...

Yeah, well I cut my wife off 8 months ago, and when she finds out, she is gonna be so mad....:mrgreen:

Anyone want to take bets these same practioners daily curse those in Muslim nations that suppress their women?
If they felt it was acceptable, it wouldn't be a 'secret'. They're just into sado-masochism and using the bible to justify it. Then again, it seems like 'Christians' use the bible to justify just about anything they do....

The problem is that people are gullible enough to allow their preachers to take scriptures out of context, mix them with other scriptures also out of context, and then build a set of rules on issues that Jesus never addressed. Surely if those issues were important, he would have said something.
Perhaps if christian churches were required to teach what they are for using only the words of Christ instead of what they are against using opinions based on obscure OT Jewish rules and laws, they could find some common ground, make peace with each other, and then possibly make peace with non-christian churches. But, there is likely little to be gained financially from that.....

Oh, how awful!

I had never heard of such a thing...but really it doesn't surprise me.

There was a spanking thread on a Christian group I'm on, and the ladies were talking about how God wants us to spank our kids. One went so far as to say "God created the rod for us to spank with."

I made the point that children were beaten in OT times because children were considered property...as were animals, slaves and WIVES. Applying that same line of reasoning, if we may spank our children today, then husbands should also be able to spank their wives. I never got a response.

In the end, I don't believe that spanking can be supported (either of children OR wives) as a biblical practice.

1) The Bible NEVER uses the term "spank." Properly understood, the force applied was a "beating" which was to be applied with a "rod." Today, beating anyone is illegal, and scripture CLEARLY admonishes the believer to "submit to the governing authorities" (Rom 13:1-8)

2) The purpose of beating was to "remove foolishness (wickedness) from the heart." (Proverbs 22:15). Since Christians believe that only the blood of Jesus can cleanse the heart from sin, beating is proven ineffective and unnecessary.

It is my firm conviction that the practice of spanking as the only "Godly" means of discipline of a child is contrary to Christianity.

Violence begets violence... Psychology 101.
I have raised two boys as a single parent... I have not once raised a hand/rod to either... Many times more than once, raised my voice. They are two fine boys and the oldest (25) has never been in trouble with the law. My 12 yr old is well focused and chooses carefully his friends.
I have never hit a woman in my life, though I always had good reason...:doh

1069 said:

Actually, one of the sites I linked to actually mentioned that the husband should withhold sex from the wife after a spanking, so that she didn't get confused and start associating punishment with "reward".

:2rofll:

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:doh Is it wrong to laugh at that?? So what if she likes to get spanked secretly, then is the spanking the "reward" for the punishment :lol:

americanwoman said:

:doh Is it wrong to laugh at that?? So what if she likes to get spanked secretly, then is the spanking the "reward" for the punishment :lol:

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Does he use the rod..? Is the spanking internal or external?

americanwoman said:

:doh Is it wrong to laugh at that?? So what if she likes to get spanked secretly, then is the spanking the "reward" for the punishment :lol:

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"WHAT IS BRATTING?

Bratting is a word that you may have heard of if you have been reading some of the mailing lists and discussion groups about Domestic Discipline. Bratting means misbehaving on purpose in order to attract discipline. It means that the woman indulges in some intentional misbehavior so that her HOH (Head of Household) is obliged to punish her with a discipline spanking....

... Sometimes a woman will intentionally misbehave when her HOH is present. If she does this, it is a sign that she is doing one of a number of different things. Firstly, she may be misbehaving in order to test her man's will. She wants to see what happens if she misbehaves - will he discipline her or will he let it slide? How strong is his will? This testing of his will is very common in the early stages of a Loving Domestic Discipline relationship, where the woman may fear that her HOH is not man enough to give her the discipline that she needs, or that he does not have the strength of will to catch and punish every example of feminine misbehavior. This testing of his will is a natural and instinctive feminine behavior in a woman. She is wanting to know two things: (1) Is he morally strong enough to discipline her? and (2) Does he love her enough to discipline her? If he passes the test, she will feel both protected and loved. She is protected by his moral strength. She is loved because he demonstrates that he loves her enough to give her what she needs, not what she wants. If she needs to be disciplined, then the loving man will discipline her for her own good.

Even women in non-Loving Domestic Discipline relationships will exhibit this kind of testing behavior to see whether their men have the right stuff or not. They are not testing him to see whether he is John Wayne or Arnold Schwarzenegger. It is not a physical test. It is rather a test of moral strength and of love.

The only problem with a test is that it implies a lack of faith. If athletes could be totally trusted not to take performance-enhancing drugs, there would be no need for drug testing. So drug testing implies a certain lack of faith in athletes' ability to do the right thing. And a woman's testing of her man's resolve via bratting implies a certain lack of faith in his moral fibre. Why would you test something unless you doubted it? If you are totally sure of something or someone, you don't need to test them, because you can rely on your own sense of certainty. So any woman who does decide to test her HOH should not complain if he disciplines her with more severity than she bargained for, because he may be disciplining her not only for her misbehavior, but also for her lack of faith and her disrespect in testing him in the first place. It is somewhat insulting to a man to be tested by his woman, because her testing implies that she has doubt in him. Any woman who decides to test her HOH should be aware that he may discipline her more harshly if he feels that he is being tested by her. And justifiably so."

This practice (of deliberately provoking discipline) is addressed on this DD site: link.

Another (anti-DD) site also mentions the practice;

"Brats:

In DD circles there are women who call themselves "brats." These women will "break a rule" or "misbehave" on purpose, just to get punished. Some admit it's the only way they can get attention from their husband - not unlike the child who acts out to get a busy parent's attention. These women don't need DD, they need their husband to be the loving spouse God has called him to be! Other brats admit they enjoy being spanked. This brings us to a very large concern ..."

link


It's hard to tell, in the course of my research, how much of this is real and how much is play (not parody; but consensual erotic role-playing rather than a genuine religious or faith-based effort).
Of all the sites I've visited, I think it's about half and half.
I've read that a number of DD couples come from a BD/SM background, and have been saved or become born-again Christians, yet are reluctant to entirely give up their former lifestyles and sex practices; therefore, they seek Biblical justification to continue and end up turning to DD as a way to practice BD/SM without the guilt or stigma.
Which pretty much makes sense, I guess.
People have a pretty much infinite capacity for hypocrisy and self-delusion, and tend to grasp any opportunity to feel morally superior.

This is WAAAAY more information then I ever wanted on this topic. :mrgreen:

1069,

I've read every link you've posted and would like to point out a couple things for those in the Peanut Gallery:

In your first post, all your links describing DD as a Christian practice came from a single source, which, appears to me, to be run by a single solo-woman (not endorsed by any Christian organization that I could see.)

The anti-DD link came from a single source which appears to be run by a couple and gives the impression of being a para-church organization.

You followed your link with very plural comments about the practice of DD among ChristianS and other ChristianS are against it. You gave the impression this is a widespread if not underground movement among Fundamentalists and that other Fundamentalists have been quietly trying to deal with it.

In your second post, you provided another different DD link...but it is not Christian. The rebuttal link was from the anti-DD link you posted the first time.

I think your deep prejudice against Fundamentalist Christians has caused you to portray DD in a way that your source links do not allow. You have a link from ONE woman who likes to write novels about DD (doesn't mean she practices it herself) and a man's blog where DD is clearly a euphemism for S & M. And a link from a Christian Marriage site which says they're against DD (which they should be.) This in no way equals underground movement.

Just for the record.

REV, I think you have just killed this thread, and it was such an amusing little idea.:2wave:

Rev - did Jesus ever activate? sexually I mean . . . would that count as a sin? . . . s'pose he'd have to be thinking something "unholy" for it to happen . . .

Makhno said:

Rev - did Jesus ever activate? sexually I mean . . . would that count as a sin? . . . s'pose he'd have to be thinking something "unholy" for it to happen . . .

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Jesus did not even unconsciously lust, since its sin. No where in the bible says that Jesus had sexual desires. Of course, conscious sin is what is used in judging us, not unconscious sin. I don't study the bible to much anyways.

Just because something isn't mentioned in the good book, doesn't mean it never happened. Modern Christians assume a lot without justification.
Why do we even care if Jesus had sex? If it occurred within the rules of society of the time, it is none of our business. What is our business? He told us, Feed my sheep, take care of each other, let no one suffer from nakedness of hunger, etc. What do the major protestant churches do? Ask for money to buy more television time to spread the word to get more money, etc. Only a few of the larger churches have missions that are aimed at helping people get enough food to eat. You can't win their hearts when their stomachs are empty.
Sidenote, I read somewhere that the Catholics have just such a mission system set up, and the Mormons have lots of food stuffs, so they work together to get it done. You'll seldom see the televangelists doing such a thing.

Rev. said:

1069,

I've read every link you've posted and would like to point out a couple things for those in the Peanut Gallery:

In your first post, all your links describing DD as a Christian practice came from a single source, which, appears to me, to be run by a single solo-woman (not endorsed by any Christian organization that I could see.)

The anti-DD link came from a single source which appears to be run by a couple and gives the impression of being a para-church organization.

You followed your link with very plural comments about the practice of DD among ChristianS and other ChristianS are against it. You gave the impression this is a widespread if not underground movement among Fundamentalists and that other Fundamentalists have been quietly trying to deal with it.

In your second post, you provided another different DD link...but it is not Christian. The rebuttal link was from the anti-DD link you posted the first time.

I think your deep prejudice against Fundamentalist Christians has caused you to portray DD in a way that your source links do not allow. You have a link from ONE woman who likes to write novels about DD (doesn't mean she practices it herself) and a man's blog where DD is clearly a euphemism for S & M. And a link from a Christian Marriage site which says they're against DD (which they should be.) This in no way equals underground movement.

Just for the record.

Click to expand...

Good leg work. 1069 is normally very attention to detailish so you get a thanks from me for a win against someone I agree with more often than not.

Say what you will; this movement definitely exists. It is, however, quite underground.

link


link (esp., read comments)


DD Yahoo group with 2491 members (you must sign up for a Yahoo ID, if you don't have one, to view this site).

link DD Yahoo group, 1059 members.

Yahoo DD group, 120 members: link

Yahoo DD group, for men only; 38 members: link
(Group description: This is a group for fathers who are involved in a domestic discipline relationship. This group is only for Dad's, so please make sure it says your gender in your profile before signing up! Once your approved, take a few minutes to let the group know a little about you, your DD experience, and realize we do not discuss issues of trashy sexual nature or children, other topics are expected to be mature in nature. Again, Welcome to the group and have a Blessed Day.)

Christian DD personal ads on Yahoo: link
(Description: This group is being formed to help single Christian men and women meet others believers who understand God's plan for the home and family.

If you are a woman willing to submit to the man you marry, this group may be of interest and value to you.

If you are a man who is in submission to Jesus Christ and you are seeking a submissive wife, this group may help you find just such a woman.

A husband who won't rule his own household is as much of an insult to his Creator, as a woman who won't submit to her husband.

* Personal Ads Accepted (MUST be clean, accurate, and truthful)

* Be sure your Yahoo member profile is complete, and updated too.

* Those interested in seeking a spouse who beleives in DD (domestic discipline) are welcome too.

* Be Smart! (don't post a lot of personal data here) Marriage relationships are built, not created overnight)

Yahoo Women's DD support group: link

Yahoo DD Group "Faith-Based Correction": link

Christian Singles Domestic Discipline, 1034 members: link

Domestic discipline, TX: link

Christian Canadians for DD: link

DD Women's group, 737 members: link

Obedient Wives, DD group, 432 members: link

Christian DD Moms, 114 members: link

MidAtlantic DD, 182 members: link

Christian Domestic Discipline, 2085 members: link

And those are just the ones I found within the past ten minutes, as a result of an only half-hearted search.
If I truly wanted to pwn you, I could probably dig up ten pages worth of links for these freako groups.
For whatever it's worth, most- if not all- of the above groups are listed under "Christian", "Marriage", or "Family" groups on Yahoo (not "sex" or "Swingers" or "S&M" or any related category).

The anti-DD link came from a single source which appears to be run by a couple and gives the impression of being a para-church organization.

Click to expand...

Would that be this anti-DD site, or one of the other ones?

I think your deep prejudice against Fundamentalist Christians has caused you to portray DD in a way that your source links do not allow.

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It's all in my head?
Jeesh... I must have more imaginary friends than anyone, since i've literally found thousands involved in this sub-culture.
It's on the down-low; you have to do more than scratch the surface to find them.
But you don't really have to look all that hard. I didn't look all that hard, and i found them. I'd expect a smart lady like you could do even better.
Heck, I never made any claims about this movement except that I'd come across references to it, in the course of researching a different topic.
I never heard of it, until the other night.
And I flat-out stated that I can't make heads nor tails of it; I don't know if they're actually just BDSM freaks, and this "Christianity' business is just some form of role-playing, or if some of them are actually deluded christians who like being spanked, or feel that they need to be.
My estimate, in light of my research at the time, was that it seemed to be about 50/50.
My assessment of the matter has not changed.
I never said that the majority of Christians practice this; I said in my very first post that i was positive it was a tiny, radical fringe minority.
I don't see how that reflects a "prejudice" against christians; if anything, it appears I may have understated the case.
You're the one with the agenda here; my agenda, as ever, is only to learn new things.
If you're so intent on proving these guys don't exist, or that they're not real Christians, perhaps you should infiltrate one of their groups and report back.

This in no way equals underground movement.

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Indeed? Okay, duly noted. :roll:

Just for the record.

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How droll.

Discipline and harmony DD group, 1988 members: link

Taken in Hand DD group, 2491 members: link
(this group is, for the record, the first one i've come across that's listed under the category "Adult"; the others are listed under "Family", "Marriage" "Christian', "relationship", and the like; so, perhaps this group is for faux-Christian perverts. Gee, there sure are a lot of them. But what about the others?).


PS See my post directly above for many links to DD groups.

Good leg work. 1069 is normally very attention to detailish so you get a thanks from me for a win against someone I agree with more often than not.

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See, this sort of assumption is the reason I'm so much smarter than most people, even though I don't even have a high school education.
I never make this sort of assumption; I research things myself. I'm never satisfied that I've got the complete story, until I've got it.
Don't fall into this trap, a smart guy like you.
Just because I sound credible, you believe me, and then just because rev makes a credible-sounding rebuttal, you believe her.
Find things out for yourselves, people! Think for yourselves! Research!
You've got the internet, for Cripe sake! You can learn everything about the world without ever leaving your chair!
Go join these DD groups and find out what the deal really is.
How difficult is that?
But if it's too much trouble, at least don't sit there going, "Oh yeah, I guess they do exist... I mean, oh no, I guess they don't exist... I mean... Uh, good legwork! Yeah, that's what I mean."
Do your own "legwork" (keyboard work?), form your own intelligent and informed opinion, and then post it.
Add something to the fricking discussion besides "Oh, I guess 1069's right. She sounds smart. I mean, oh wait, I guess the Rev's right. She sounds smart."
1069 is the only person here who has put even five minutes worth of research into this issue; the Rev, apparently, has not, or else she would've found all these groups herself (unless maybe she is aware of them, and is only trying to cover up their existence).

So who's right?

oke

C'mon... who's right?

I need a little ego-boost after the crappy day I just had.