China's Foreign Ministry spokesperson Wang Wenbin warned that the U.S. should handle the subject of Taiwan "prudently" and that "whoever the United States sends to show so-called support for Taiwan will be futile."
"The will of the Chinese people to defend our national sovereignty and territorial integrity is unwavering," he said during a press briefing.
Xi has made reuniting China one of the pillars of his presidency, so at this point there's really no backing out. China will be ready militarily in 5 years. The decoupling economically to lessen the impact of sanctions will take longer.But it has not been a part of China for over 70 years now.
There is a time to just admit it is over and walk away. In case China has not realized it, the era of trying to annex other nations is a thing of the past. Soviet Union, Iraq, and now Russia have tried it in recent decades, and it has pretty much failed.
This is Taiwan, not Kampuchea.
China will be ready militarily in 5 years.
1. I find that hard to believe without evidence.They will likely never be ready. Their military is largely a joke, especially the PLAN.
And it is impossible to decouple their economy. They are dependent upon foreign money from producing things for other countries. Cut that off, and they are back to Third World status again.
I bet a lot of them right now are quietly crapping egg drop soup as the world watches the Russian economy collapse. Because that will be just a fraction of the reaction of the world if they invade Taiwan. They have a military that has not really been used since a small month long conflict in 1979. That is actually 43 years ago now. Not a single member of the military in uniform then is in uniform today. Their Navy has never amounted to much, and it shows as it is almost completely incapable of operating as more than a glorified Coast Guard.
Russia thought it's economy was safe from sanctions, and they are just now seeing how wrong they were. When some of the biggest corporations in the world just shut them off and close off hundreds of company owned locations, you know they are serious. But that will be nothing to the mass-exodus of business from China.
2. That would absolutely cripple the world economy as well, and they know it.
And you somehow believe that that process will be immediate? I'm sorry to break your bubble, but a complete cut-off of trade with China would be catastrophic. The world is dependent on trade with China, far more than Russia, you're just ill-informed. To your second point, I'd like to see sources that explain how the Chinese navy as a whole is somehow incompetent in every aspect. Unfortunately, your masturbatory reverence to the declining US power blinds you to any other viewpoints which you'll just ignore as "CCP propaganda".The world economy is not as fragile as you think. In fact, most of the work done there would likely return to where it was before China became the world leader in cheap labor. Mexico, Canada, Philippines, Vietnam, etc, etc, etc. The world is not as dependent on China as you think.
And without evidence? Hell, look at the operational activities of the PLAN for since forever. A 2 week cruise is a "long cruise" for their ships. Most of their subs have not left their docks in years. I have never heard of anything but a few Destroyers being away from port for over a month. And when they were helping in the anti-pirate mission off of Africa, they were constantly screaming at how it was impossible for them to keep their ships operating and supplied.
The US frequently sends ships out for 6 months at a time, and even for periods of over a year. Their UNREP is second to none, through a century of practice and refinement. Meanwhile from what I have been able to gather, the PLAN did an UNREP exercise exactly once.
But it is already obvious that you are just a troll, and will believe nothing that you do not agree with. You are hardly the first pro-China troll we have seen.
The world is dependent on trade with China, far more than Russia, you're just ill-informed.
To your second point, I'd like to see sources that explain how the Chinese navy as a whole is somehow incompetent in every aspect.
Interestingly, the only solution you seem to give is diversification, and your response is mostly a rant on "made in china" products. The first problem with that is demand.
Ok, you completely ignored what I even stated. YOU cannot compare Russia and China. Russia only really exports natural gas and isn't that important for trade, yet even then the EU has not imposed energy sanctions, whereas China is an integral part of the world economy. Even then gas prices have gone up and the US is being forced to turn to Venezuela and Iran. To compare the economies of Tiananmen Square China and Modern China shows a complete lack of understanding of economics. In 1989, China was barely worth mentioning, this couldn't be farther from the truth now. Your analogy doesn't make sense since you're basically comparing entirely different economies, and to break off trade from Modern day China could not have a more different impact. The world is not "willing to take the hit" and if you think so, I hate to break it to you but no European country has imposed gas sanctions on Russia, simply because its an essential lifeline that they cannot just "break off". This would apply to China tenfold. Furthermore, you seemed to ignore the point I made with 1.4 billion consumers with a burgeoning middle class. That's a huge market that businesses will struggle to replace. Again, you seem to think its incredibly easy to simply pack up and leave, without evidence. Refer to my points in my last post. You think that if trade gets cut-off, these businesses magically have new supply chains, magically have tenfold demand from other countries, and magically also have alternatives that have an industrial capacity exceeding China? What a joke. If you're only rebuttal is to say that made in China products are copies, then this conversation has no value.And you are just like the Pro-Russia cheerleaders that were saying the same thing about Ukraine not that long ago.
"Oh, they can't cut off Russia! It is too important to the economy! They have all that oil and gas! The Vodka! We can't stop trading with them, it would cripple everybody!"
Well, we did exactly that. And even more, look at 1989. When China brutally put down the Tiananmen Square protests, it crippled their economy and it took them over a decade to recover to where it had been before. It sank almost overnight from over $3.5 billion a year, to under $700 million a year. And many companies are already working on returning manufacturing back to the US or other countries, because of Taiwan and many internal problems are making them rethink their relationship with that country.
You are making the same mistake that a lot of "Socialists" make. You all are so obsessed with money, you fail to realize that most of the world is not that obsessed with it. They will willingly take such a hit, knowing that it will hurt China even more. That is what you all fail to recognize. You think the world is that dependent on China?
It ain't that big a deal.
And abandon "1.4 billion customers"? Holy hell, do you not know there is a growing trade deficit? If most of the world cut off China, that is only good for the US, as the need for their own goods would increase worldwide. Especially as much of those products made in China are US products! What, you think the iPhone is a Chinese product? It is not, it is American. The most popular cell phone in the world, you think that we will not continue to make and sell it just because it no longer has "Made in China" stamped on it? The XBox, a US company but made in China. The PlayStation. A Japanese product but made in China. Do you really think that those companies have not already made plans on what to do if sanctions or a trade war started? They can all leave China and move their manufacturing elsewhere. Those companies will lose little, China will lose a lot.
Then good luck in trying to make money selling the world the crap that China actually makes on its own. I can't see the world crying because it can not get Huawei cell phones and Tencent consoles. And those of us that watch computers know what garbage the "Chinese Designed" computers are. Slower than systems that companies like Dell and HP made over a decade ago, and twice the price.
Latest Zhaoxin x86 CPUs tested: This is what China closing the gap looks like
One of the latest developments in that path is the recent arrival to the CPU market of an impressive x86 chip that is the result of a...www.techspot.com
Feel free to check it out, it is outperformed by a budget AMD processor from 2017. Trounced in every benchmark, you think anybody outside of China will cry that they can't get their hands on one? I have been watching those for years, they are a joke.
Find me any expert or credible source that says this is a viable option and not a braindead strategy. I'm not gonna read your response otherwise.
Australia-China relations have long been marked by a fundamental tension. Economically, the two sides have been increasingly intertwined, with Australia providing many of the commodities on which China’s industry relies. But politically, much divides them. Beyond differences on values and human rights, Australia is concerned by China’s increasingly belligerent behavior in the Indo-Pacific. China, meanwhile, bristles at what it believes to be Australia’s anti-China stance. Over the past several decades, the two countries operated under an implicit bargain to shelter their rapidly growing economic ties from any political differences.
It worked: From 2009 to 2019, Australian exports to China tripled to 149 billion Australian dollars (around $110 billion) per year. Around half of that is iron ore, which fuels China’s insatiable need for steel to fuel its construction boom. The rest is mainly coal, gas, and agricultural products, plus substantial Australian earnings from Chinese students and tourists. This bargain held even when relations hit a rough patch—such as in 2009 and 2017—with trade increasing every year.
The bargain suddenly broke down last year. In April 2020, the Australian government led an international call for an independent inquiry into the still-murky origins of COVID-19 in Wuhan, China. An incensed Beijing quickly denounced Canberra’s call as an affront and political witch hunt.
Key asymmetries include China’s greater reliance on international trade in general (especially with regard to energy supplies), reliance on exports to the United States in particular, and holdings of U.S. debt; U.S. reliance on imports from China; U.S. direct investment in China; and higher U.S. consumption as share of GDP. In considering the economic costs of war, perhaps the most significant asymmetry is that intensive and extensive combat in the Western Pacific would disrupt nearly all Chinese trade (95 percent of it being seaborne), whereas the United States would mainly suffer the loss of bilateral trade with China and, to a much lesser extent than China, trade with the rest of East Asia.14 This might be thought of as the war-zone effect on trade.
You do know that tariffs upon less important exports is different from a complete cut-off of trade right? China did not impose tariffs upon vital imports, i.e. iron and natural gases. The effect would be far worse.*yawn*
Australia Shows the World What Decoupling From China Looks Like
The bottom line: Beijing’s attempt to bully Canberra has been a spectacular failure.foreignpolicy.com
There is a lot more involved in the article, but it discusses the recent withdrawal of Australia from much of China. And guess who lost the most in the deal? Hint: It was not Australia.
There, you asked for one, I presented two. With sources, feel free to comment. But I think I can already say your response. Outright rejection, with shoe pounding if you could in here.
But please, let me know when you want to actually have a discussion, and not scream like a lunatic.
We need to hurry up and build fabs here. I wonder if the Intel project in Ohio can be accelerated.
If you're not gonna seriously select your articles or even respond to all my points then there's no reason for this conversation to continue.
I know. However, intel may be in a position to need to take up the slack from AMD if TSMC no longer produces.Here is the funny thing, Intel makes nothing of importance in China.
To give an idea, the only fabrication plant that Intel has in China only manufactures 65nm chips. That is roughly "state of the art" in chip manufacturing, in 2005.
Their newest chips use a 10nm production process, and that facility is in Oregon.
The only thing that most chip makers have "made in China" are lesser support chips, not the main processors themselves. They have never had them made in China, and likely never will.
China is a great place to send off your north bridge and southbridge chips, memory controllers, video processors, things like that. But it is not where you have your main processors made. It never has been, and likely never will be.
Since you do not seem to be able to distinguish tariffs and a complete cut-off of trade or even seem to read my posts. I dont think I'll be discussing this any longer.*yawn*
Yes, your article predicts doom and gloom for Australia if something like that happened.
Dated OCTOBER 27 2020
Then the other talks about what actually happened.
Dated NOVEMBER 9, 2021
So we have the predictions on one side, which you present. I present the actual outcome, and they are not at all similar.
No, it is pointless because you are a fanatic and obvious yet another China Fanboi. You all are incredibly predictable, and about as entertaining ultimately as Snitwin, our resident Nazi Fanboi.
But don't cry or feel bad, I dismiss all fanatics and fanbois equally.
But if you think nothing will happen, then I say China can just go ahead and do it. Then sit back and watch as the world turns the clock back to enact sanctions that will make 1989 look like a pat on the head.
I know. However, intel may be in a position to need to take up the slack from AMD if TSMC no longer produces.
I forgot about Arizona!Actually, their main high quality fab facility is in Washington State. And another in Singapore.
Their newest facility is still under construction in Arizona.
This is something most fail to understand. Nobody has any chips of real importance made in China. They never have. Just support ships, where they do not need to be as high of a quality and could be made in any factory 15 years old or older. And that is simply because they upgrade their main factories (mostly in the US) to make the newest and most powerful chips, and send their older equipment to China to make chips that are nowhere near as critical.
Lol.But it has not been a part of China for over 70 years now.
There is a time to just admit it is over and walk away. In case China has not realized it, the era of trying to annex other nations is a thing of the past. Soviet Union, Iraq, and now Russia have tried it in recent decades, and it has pretty much failed.
This is Taiwan, not Kampuchea.
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